We should embrace the death of Democracy

[Dr Exiled]

I suspect you are overreacting to the election. Perhaps shut off Rachel Maddow and the other purveyors of what really appears to be a bizarre dystopian prediction. They're just pushing fear porn on you because their media is going away and your team doesn't have a good alternative at this point. Besides, Trump already showed how he governs and it was him trying to stamp his name on everything. We survived. It doesn't have to be a civil war or session just because your bogey man won. The democrats will probably win back the House and or Senate in 2026 thereby stopping whatever dictatorship you believe is coming. Then two years after that Trump will leave just like he did on Jan 20, 2021.

I fervently hope you're right about that, but it has long been true that extremely conservative Republicans have been working hard to purge from the voting roles any and all who they think will be unlikely to vote for them, and I am confident that with Republicans having a majority in all three branches of our government, they will be sure to at least redouble those efforts during Trump's administration. It is already true that a majority of elected government officials represent a minority of the electorate, due to gerrymandering and other machinations to unfairly limit the influence of any with whom they disagree, especially if they outnumber those who actually agree with them. Trump, at this point, couldn't care less about how many oppose him and his actions because he knows that he is constitutionally prohibited from ever running for President again, though I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to find some way, whether legal or not, to effectively nullify or ignore that prohibition.

I suspect, though, there is a high probability that he is in poor enough health that he won't live long enough to run again, even if it were legal. I think there is an even higher probability that he will lose enough mental capacity before the end of his term to even function adequately or rationally. His rapidly diminishing cognitive capacity is already noticeable and alarming to even some of his most prominent supporters.

I see Trump firing a bunch of people at the FBI, DOJ and the intelligence agencies, and perhaps allowing Kennedy to do some reforms at the FDA and Dept of Agriculture. He'll also look to attack immigration. I don't see him looking to be dictator for life.

Incidentally, I may get involved representing immigrants seeking asylum and trying to avoid deportation. Trump will probably do blanket reforms and I'm sure certain people will be caught up in it that shouldn't be. Immigration lawyers will be busy.

[Dwight]

I agree it probably won't be as doom and gloom as it feels. I'm sure Trump's (and his administration's) laziness and incompetence will see them not do all the things they want. Then some things they try to do there will be resistance which will further stop the crazy. Though I think having experience, not having adults that he had the first time around, that they will hit the ground running so they will get more done before the midterms than they did last time.

Another problem is how the lifetime judicial appointments have been. Rumors are already floating Thomas will retire so Trump can pick his replacement, Alito and Roberts may follow suit. Then it won't matter, 6-3 conservative majority (and not very principled conservatives in my opinion) for the Supreme Court for 10+ years regardless of elections. Not even if Democrats got enough to be able to impeach do I think they actually would impeach a justice (barring some super egregious thing).

I do worry though about purges and changes for government agencies. I met a bunch on my mission in Maryland. They mostly kept their politics to themselves and were just interested in serving the people. They also tended to trade higher salaries in private sector for the stability of the government. If that stability goes then there is no reason. This is an asymmetrical thing Republicans have, get the government they want, or get rid of it completely, either way they win.

[Gadianton]

Another problem is how the lifetime judicial appointments have been. Rumors are already floating Thomas will retire so Trump can pick his replacement, Alito and Roberts may follow suit. Then it won't matter, 6-3 conservative majority (and not very principled conservatives in my opinion) for the Supreme Court for 10+ years regardless of elections. Not even if Democrats got enough to be able to impeach do I think they actually would impeach a justice (barring some super egregious thing).

Another point that goes well with this thread. If there is a hope for time-sensitive large-scale planning (such as getting through global warming), it will never happen in our democracy. It will need to be a collaboration between private enterprise and government, all with vested interests in the future who are willing to work together. The pressure really needs to be on to prevent corruption as much as possible.

[Gunnar]

Another problem is how the lifetime judicial appointments have been. Rumors are already floating Thomas will retire so Trump can pick his replacement, Alito and Roberts may follow suit. Then it won't matter, 6-3 conservative majority (and not very principled conservatives in my opinion) for the Supreme Court for 10+ years regardless of elections. Not even if Democrats got enough to be able to impeach do I think they actually would impeach a justice (barring some super egregious thing).

I do worry though about purges and changes for government agencies. I met a bunch on my mission in Maryland. They mostly kept their politics to themselves and were just interested in serving the people. They also tended to trade higher salaries in private sector for the stability of the government. If that stability goes then there is no reason. This is an asymmetrical thing Republicans have, get the government they want, or get rid of it completely, either way they win.

That Trump may manage to convince the 3 oldest and most hard right conservatives to retire so he can replace them with younger, less qualified MAGA and anti-democracy firebrands is frightening. It will mean the end of democracy as we know and love it and much of the liberties and rights enumerated in the U.S. Constitution, particularly the Bill of Rights enumerated in the first 10 Amendments to it. It virtually guarantees that our country devolves into a deeply authoritarian dictatorship ruled by religious zealots and ethnic bigots who will likely find some pretext for weakening or even ignoring the First Amendment's prohibition on establishing religion and guarantees of freedom of speech and the press whenever it suits their selfish ends or biases.

Many hard core conservatives and organizations like the Heritage Foundation and authors of the 2025 Project don't even try to make a secret of their blatant and proud ambition to transform our nation into a theocratic despotism based on Old Testament principles and prohibitions, and entirely doing away with the U.S. Constitution and secular system of government wisely and deliberately established by our nation's forefathers.

[Moksha]

Many hard core conservatives and organizations like the Heritage Foundation and authors of the 2025 Project don't even try to make a secret of their blatant and proud ambition to transform our nation into a theocratic despotism based on Old Testament principles and prohibitions, and entirely doing away with the U.S. Constitution and secular system of government wisely and deliberately established by our nation's forefathers.

That is sad. I will miss the ideals that America once stood for. However, once the harsh details of fascism are apparent, the religious right will rejoice.

[Gunnar]

Many hard core conservatives and organizations like the Heritage Foundation and authors of the 2025 Project don't even try to make a secret of their blatant and proud ambition to transform our nation into a theocratic despotism based on Old Testament principles and prohibitions, and entirely doing away with the U.S. Constitution and secular system of government wisely and deliberately established by our nation's forefathers.

That is sad. I will miss the ideals that America once stood for. However, once the harsh details of fascism are apparent, the religious right will rejoice.

Some Christian Nationalists (such as Nick Fuentes) actually call for the execution of Non-Christians.

[Moksha]

Plenty of people in the Weimar Republic insisted that Chancellor Hitler would be okay and that life would keep improving. They too would have agreed with banning the worry wart Rachel Maddow and her ilk from the airwaves.

NBC is divesting themselves of MSNBC. That is probably wise in this era when Fox News may become the state's official organ for authorized news.

[Kishkumen]

Who knew that Frazer's Golden Bough would be so valuable in understanding the American presidency!

[Kishkumen]

The B theory of elections is what I've always assumed is true, and that is, elections are won by face recognition and messaging. The hype model. Arnold Schwarzenegger needs to start his campaign tomorrow. He needs to goad Trump, challenge him to meet in the ring. Imagine a campaign ad with Arnold as the Terminator walking towards the capitol, breaking down the door, and marching mechanically towards Trump's office with a t-shirt on that reads, "Patriot #3". He breaks down Trump's office door while Trump is on the phone with a cheeseburger, pulls him out of his chair and physically tosses him out of the White House. On his way out, he rescues a child from being hit by a golf cart full of incompetent security people, and safely returns the kid to his shouting MAGA parents that weren't watching. He wishes them a nice day and leaves. We can win with that, but we only win the bare minimum, as people are never able to rationally understand and vote on real policy.

Problem with the Arnold idea is that he is not eligible.

[Markk]

The harder 2025 pushes for a dictatorship, the harder blue states will need to push back by ignoring Federal laws. It will be a civil war, but not with guns; a procedural war. Perhaps states themselves won't be the lines of division. I really don't know. The upshot is that blue is significantly the economic majority. I'm hoping the elites have been working on a plan to quietly secede.

If California secedes, it would be the world's fifth largest economy. California also contributes more tax revenue to the US federal government than any other state by far, subsidizing all sorts of Republican states, for which it simply receives constant abuse and scorn.

If California secedes, the dollar would tank and red states would lose their welfare checks, Medicare and social security benefits. If other blue states followed California in seceding, the red states would be like Albania or any other Eastern European country.

Most Californians actually would prefer seceding and just remain on friendly terms with the U.S. If Trump continues to be divisive and dictatorial, there may very well be a new independent country called California.

https://www.newsweek.com/majority-calif ... ey-1874026

I just have to ask, have you ever lived in California? I am guessing here, but I would bet a pay check that 99.9 % of Californians (or Americans) have absolutely no idea, absolutely no idea, what Texas vs. White even exists or demands.

As a life long Californian, we want lower taxes, cheaper fuel, safe streets, affordable housing, better roads and less traffic...etc. I don't know one person that wants to, or even discusses seceding from the union.

Myself, working with and managing undocumented and permitted (work visas and green card) immigrants every day can tell you a large percentage of people who live here, believe California is the property of Mexico, that we stole it from them.... and in no way understand the politics and BS that the Newsweek article suggests. It is a really a joke.

I honestly do not understand how people get away writing what they do, and that people buy into it.