I've been nervous about the Dehlin accusations from the start, but I've allowed them because he uses his name on a public website and is something of a public figure, by his own design. He's a poster here, but doesn't post under his own name, and Rosebud hasn't linked his real name to his user name, so I've allowed it for that reason, too. I've also allowed it in the name of Rosebud's freedom of speech.
So the two of them are linked all over the place on this board (those are but a few available examples) where she continues to make unsupported allegations against him.
LIGHT HAS A NAME
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF
Wow, there's a lot to unpack here. Thanks to everyone who has shared his or her opinion.
It's clear that leaving the thread here in the Terrestrial Forum is untenable due to the personal attacks if nothing else. Weighing everyone's feedback, it looks like the only real choices are to:
Move the thread to the Telestial Forum, so either Rosebud or Dehlin can access it at will and everyone can continue participating in it, but it will be invisible to anyone without an account here, or
Move it to the moderator forum, where nobody can view it or continue participating in it, but we can give it to anyone who needs it for legal purposes or whatever.
I'm guessing the "Yes" votes will prefer the former option, but the "No" votes will prefer the latter option? Either way, please feel free to share your opinions so I can make a better-informed decision.
Do as you see fit but ask yourself this question. By allowing serious, false, and unsupported allegations against JD and harrassment of JD, are you in fact setting yourself up (or is Rosebud setting you up) for litigation? Are you missing the forest for the trees? If you end up in litigation what happens to this board? If the board itself is deemed evidence by a court of law, would the board need to be taken offline (frozen in time) in the interim? I'd factor all of that in when weighing the matter. There are attorneys on this board. Maybe a little consult is in order. This situation has got more tentacles than anyone can count.
I'd at least pull it into the Mod Forum until you are certain what route to take. Freeze it in time yourself until you know.
LIGHT HAS A NAME
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF
This is the time we need Mental Gymnast to grant us absolution. Having the wrongdoing preserved for legal purposes, and posted elsewhere could help. Did Dehlin ever sign a waiver for constant defamation?
I like moving it down to the right area of the board and making it invisible unless you have an account. It doesn't stop interested parties, but it also stops it being on display for the looky loos. I guess you could ask JD what he thinks as well. Personally I would go that JD isn't threatened by this, it's too out of the way, and if he was he would go after Rosebud, not the board. At the very least he would ask it be removed for breaking the rules before reaching for a lawsuit.
I like moving it down to the right area of the board and making it invisible unless you have an account. It doesn't stop interested parties, but it also stops it being on display for the looky loos. I guess you could ask JD what he thinks as well. Personally I would go that JD isn't threatened by this, it's too out of the way, and if he was he would go after Rosebud, not the board. At the very least he would ask it be removed for breaking the rules before reaching for a lawsuit.
Invisible unless you have an account. So do you think she hasn't linked to this board from outside of it or posted a screenshot of this board, thus drawing public attention to it that might result in new accounts here? I dunno, maybe connecting her screen name, her in real life name and his name as well?
Would your answer change if she did?
LIGHT HAS A NAME
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF
Also, since the place for some matters is in courts of law, it is worth pointing out (again) that what happens in courts of law is open for public discussion.
Am I not allowed to report on the Mormon church is seeking to get out of liability for the BSA sex abuse cases by giving a sum that isn’t enough money to the BSA trust fund? Or is the reasoning that I can’t talk about what’s in courts of law because they belong in courts of law?
Is the problem that my own name was brought up in a court of law so therefore I shouldn’t talk about it? (Some people make really dumb arguments.)
Also, right now, many cases (not unlike like my own) aren’t going to court in Utah because Utah’s Supreme Court ruled against Utah’s legislature on statutes of limitations (also protecting Nelson and his daughter) and any case taken to court will likely be dismissed with prejudice (meaning the case can’t be taken again in 10 years if the sentiment in Utah changes).
So why would I sue the church directly in Utah right now? So a judge can dismiss the case with prejudice and I lose all my rights?
And since the courts in Utah are silencing the cases by de-incentivizing people to file them because the cases will likely be dismissed with prejudice, does that also mean we shouldn’t talk about them on a message board?
Doesn’t that just help throw a rug over the top of everything?
Or is the reasoning circular and what it comes down to is that there are multiple pressures all working together to silence a problem? If so, is that not part of the problem itself? A part that needs to be pointed out and addressed? And therefore isn’t it worth someone seeking to point it out as address it?
Why doesn’t this belong on this board if the other things you discuss belong on this board? It is all about Utah and Mormonism and fights between different factions. That’s what this board is.
Login to read my old public record, now forced into the private Telestial Room.
I like moving it down to the right area of the board and making it invisible unless you have an account. It doesn't stop interested parties, but it also stops it being on display for the looky loos. I guess you could ask JD what he thinks as well. Personally I would go that JD isn't threatened by this, it's too out of the way, and if he was he would go after Rosebud, not the board. At the very least he would ask it be removed for breaking the rules before reaching for a lawsuit.
Moving it down to the lower forum is the best option in my opinion. Let people with an account view it if they want. And Rosebud can keep shooting wolf in a small room that doesn’t bother anyone.
If you think about it, the system is set up perfectly for suppression of information.
Individuals, including but not limited to myself, have no incentive to use a legal system that will dismiss cases with prejudice during time periods when the laws are not written in their favor despite controversies over those laws and the fact that at some point in the future, the laws will likely change. I like to try to hold onto optimism that our country might move forward in a positive direction.
Individuals, including but not limited to myself, with less financial power are not incentivized to use the justice system when their opponents have access to lots of money $$$$$$$ and aggressive attorneys (Kirton-McConkie and Jenifer Tomchak, for example). Plus, time is my most valuable asset. It’s much better spent on other things, both emotionally and physically.
Other individuals who lack information and are naïve about what’s happening can say things like, “This doesn’t belong here, it belongs in a court of law. Let’s erase it.”
Then their friends can chime in and repeat dumb arguments so many times that people start believing them.
And weak-minded people make prophets out of Dehlins and Nelsons, lacking the self-awareness to understand what they’re doing.
Yada yada yada.
What I am saying is about many people in Utah and Mormonism, not just me.
This is not about me. If it were, I wouldn’t be here. I have better things to do. A lot of them.
Login to read my old public record, now forced into the private Telestial Room.
