Calling it "Politically Motivated"

[canpakes]

Looks like you didn’t read the link that had the details of what Democrats and Congress were doing during the Biden administration. Here it is again:

https://www.commerce.gov/news/blog/2024 ... nvestments

Republicans hold all of the cards now. They can either continue with these plans or ditch them in favor of their own.

So far, Trump has placed all of his eggs into the tariff basket, where Americans are asked to pay 25% more for goods so that Trump can give a tax break to the CEOs who moved manufacturing to foreign shores. You seem to be in favor of rewarding the kinds of folks that gutted the middle class. And you’re itchin’ to use middle class dollars to do it. Somewhere in all of that is a weird claim that making folks pay 25% more for their needs magically makes it easier to make ends meet.

It kind of sounds like a tithing sermon. : )

It reads....

For more information on the Biden-Harris Administration’s commitment to revitalizing U.S. manufacturing, see President Biden’s Proclamation on National Manufacturing Day, 2024 and the Biden-⁠Harris Administration’s Progress Creating a Future Made in America fact sheet.

When I click on the hyperlinks, it reads pages not found?

Lol. And why do you think that is? Who controls access to those links, now?

The same folks who controlled links to USAID pages … and deleted them, or to pages regarding non-white occupants of Arlington cemetary … and deleted them, or to references within NIH that addressed minority health … and deleted them, or to several hundred other pages to and references of anything ‘DEI’, etc., and deleted them. Not that the current Administration seems overly sensitive to any information that doesn’t explicitly serve their particular agenda, right? : D

ETA: since I’m an irritating smartypants, I located an archived copy of that doc, which provides even more details about ‘plans’, as ‘plans’ are the new distraction you’ve seized upon to avoid explaining how tariffs will Save America©. Here you go:

https://bidenwhitehouse.archives.gov/br ... n-america/

Anyhow, when you ask:

So what is the plan then, and more importantly, as I have asked, what is the Democratic Plan?

… then I know that you’re purposely being obtuse, because the text within that link provides dozens of detailed examples of initiatives, actions and programs that were in place during the previous Administration. I recommend that you read it more closely.

I could easily counter with this....

You ‘countered’ it with a press release that was issued almost a year-and-a-half before the document that I linked to was issued.

A lot happened in that extra year-and-a-half.

There is nothing I read in what you pasted that outlines a Democrat plan then, …

Here’s where you again pretend that you can’t read. The link outlines dozens of detailed examples of initiatives, actions and programs that were put in place during the previous Administration.

… and certainly not now. So what is the plan, put it in your own words and we can advance from there.

Why would I need to restate in my own words what is plainly spelled out in dozens of paragraphs with abundant detail? So that you can try again to dodge the fact that ‘a plan’ - quite a few of them, in fact - plainly existed, in contrast to how the present Administration is deciding to throw all of their eggs into the tariff basket so that they can pretend that tariffs will magically force a manufacturing renaissance?

Will Republicans keep the Biden Admin planning in place? Ask Team Trump. Or let me know what from that page you think that they should abandon. Only Team Trump is allowed to make those changes now. Asking if the ‘Democrat Caucus’ can continue the programs from the Biden Administration is like asking why the Girl Scouts haven’t formulated a Treasury Department policy plan, yet. Don’t pretend that your audience is not plainly aware of how this works. It’s unbecoming of you.
; )

One positive thing about this is that you seem to agree that we need to win back manufacturing that we lost....can we agree to that?

This has never been a point of contention. No large country can exist without some sort of manufacturing base. It would be your straw man to insist that anyone would try to claim otherwise. The actual issues are that (1) manufacturing jobs in and of themselves won’t strengthen the middle class without sufficient wages being offered, and (2) tariffs haven’t been proven to initiate manufacturing renaissances. And this is before we start to examine the fact that there are other major factors negatively impacting lower- and middle-income wage earners, and that tariffs economically stress those folks even more by imposing immediate cost-of-living increases with no guarantee of better jobs available down the road.

[Gadianton]

manufacturing jobs in and of themselves won’t strengthen the middle class without sufficient wages being offered, and (2) tariffs haven’t been proven to initiate manufacturing renaissances.

Both very good points. As you've pointed out elsewhere, we didn't "lose" manufacturing, team red sold out manufacturing for a profit and team blue went along with it. And right now we're #2 in the world for manufacturing anyway. where are right-wingers getting the idea that we don't manufacture anything?

What is it we need to manufacture and why? Biden was worried about chips for a reason other than it would be a nice-have for US jobs. Do we need to subsidize chips? China is subsidizing the hell out of chips. But we don't need to do that, what a waste of money! We can just slap 20% tariffs, scare the hell out of consumers with worries over a recession, and wait for the factories to magically be built. It's actually, not just the chips, but the machines that make the chips, specifically, the machines that make the smallest chips used in i-phones and high-performance processers. Only one company in the world makes those machines, the technology is way beyond mere rocket science, and that company is not based in the US. China is paying unlimited salaries to attract the best engineers in the hopes of replicating it.

Maybe before spouting his ignorant opinions, Markk should research the industry, perhaps the world market for microchips, write a summary to show he has the barest understanding of what he's talking about, and then provide his reasons for why Trump's way is the best way and Biden was just wasting money that we can't pay back. If he's not worried about our inability to make chips because we don't know how to make a machine the makes the smallest chips, then he should state his industry, perhaps trucks or power tools, summarize the world market, and then explain how a tariff is expected to bring manufacturing to the US in a way that provides a high salary for millions of Americans.

[Markk]

Cakes:Lol. And why do you think that is? Who controls access to those links, now?

The same folks who controlled links to USAID pages ... and deleted them, or to pages regarding non-white occupants of Arlington cemetary ... and deleted them, or to references within NIH that addressed minority health ... and deleted them, or to several hundred other pages to and references of anything ‘DEI’, etc., and deleted them. Not that the current Administration seems overly sensitive to any information that doesn’t explicitly serve their particular agenda, right? : D

ETA: since I’m an irritating smartypants, I located an archived copy of that doc, which provides even more details about ‘plans’, as ‘plans’ are the new distraction you’ve seized upon to avoid explaining how tariffs will Save America©. Here you go:

https://bidenwhitehouse.archives.gov/br ... n-america/

First I have to note Biden agreed with Trump (my assertions) that we need to increase good paying manufacturing jobs, which you were saying are basically not worth it because the jobs did not pay enough.

And all this is an argument against your argument for us having to pay higher prices. In other words why is okay to pay more for things when Biden institutes it, but wrong when Trump does? And keep in mind this is tax payer money and borrowed money.

This proposal would close a giant loophole and further advance the President and Vice President’s commitment to support American manufacturers and good-paying jobs across the United States.

That said....

So in the link, "closing loop holes"....and buy America for highway projects that use fed monies....Tax funded temporary jobs for highway work. Will help bring back steel and cement ingredients.

The next one...."Chips" We talked about this....tax funded.

The next one...."Buy American: In 2022, the Biden-Harris Administration announced the most robust updates to the implementation of the Buy American Act in nearly 70 years to ensure taxpayer dollars create good-paying jobs here at home, and strengthen critical supply chains. This rule increased the domestic content requirements for Made in America for federal procurement from 55 percent of the value of their component parts that are manufactured here to a threshold of 60 percent in 2022, 65 percent in 2024, and 75 percent in 2029. This action also closed loopholes in the current regulation while allowing businesses time to onshore manufacturing and adjust their supply chains to increase the use of American-made components."

Again this contradicts your ideology that manufacturing jobs are necessary and do not pay good.

I am not sure what type of projects this would include. But it would create more American made products....which is good, but on the tax payer dime. And after the money is gone, if the private sector does not keep buying these products, then this is only temporary. And if the private sector does continue to buy, then again your arguments that Trump's plan forcing Americans to buy American is hypocritical.

It is not what is seems. Waivers are key here also. BA has been around for a hundred years and both Trump and Biden are champions for it.

https://www.factcheck.org/2024/05/biden ... rica-spin/

Next:

Broadband: The Biden-Harris Investing in America agenda includes historic funding for high-speed internet access, spurring hundreds of millions of dollars in investments in broadband manufacturing as numerous companies onshore and expand domestic manufacturing capacity.As a result of these policies, close to 90% of the funding spent on equipment for the $42.45 billion Broadband Equity, Access, and Deployment (BEAD) Program will be spent on equipment manufactured in the United States. Implementation of the BEAD Program is creating thousands of good-paying manufacturing jobs across the country — from Kenosha, Wisconsin to Hickory, North Carolina and Gilbert, Arizona. Workers in these communities are now producing broadband equipment, like fiber optic cable and key electronics, necessary to bring affordable, reliable high-speed internet to everyone in America.

This was authorized in 2021, and to date, not one connection has been made. And it is tax payer money. It is a mess from everything I have read and is being revamped.

Next

Port Infrastructure: The Administration continues to deliver for the American people by rebuilding the U.S.’s industrial capacity to produce port cranes with trusted partners. The Administration will invest over $20 billion, including through grants, into U.S. port infrastructure over the next 5 years through the Biden-Harris Investing in America agenda, including the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the Inflation Reduction Act. As a result, PACECO Corp., a U.S.-based subsidiary of Mitsui E&S Co., Ltd (Japan), is planning to onshore U.S. manufacturing capacity for its crane production. Leveraging over $20 billion in funding for America’s ports infrastructure over the next 5 years, alongside the recent Executive Order on Amending Regulations Relating to the Safeguarding of Vessels, Harbors, Ports, and Waterfront Facilities of the United States to bolster the security of the nation’s ports, and tariffs to protect American workers and businesses from China’s unfair trade practices, these investments will support and better secure America’s critical infrastructure.

Temporary and taxpayer funded. And, it is primarily about making the ports electric and reducing the carbon foot prints. Ironically you must not have read that this Biden plan includes.... "..." tariffs to protect American workers and businesses from China’s unfair trade practices,...""

Continued....

[Markk]

manufacturing jobs in and of themselves won’t strengthen the middle class without sufficient wages being offered, and (2) tariffs haven’t been proven to initiate manufacturing renaissances.

Both very good points. As you've pointed out elsewhere, we didn't "lose" manufacturing, team red sold out manufacturing for a profit and team blue went along with it. And right now we're #2 in the world for manufacturing anyway. where are right-wingers getting the idea that we don't manufacture anything?

What is it we need to manufacture and why? Biden was worried about chips for a reason other than it would be a nice-have for US jobs. Do we need to subsidize chips? China is subsidizing the hell out of chips. But we don't need to do that, what a waste of money! We can just slap 20% tariffs, scare the hell out of consumers with worries over a recession, and wait for the factories to magically be built. It's actually, not just the chips, but the machines that make the chips, specifically, the machines that make the smallest chips used in i-phones and high-performance processers. Only one company in the world makes those machines, the technology is way beyond mere rocket science, and that company is not based in the US. China is paying unlimited salaries to attract the best engineers in the hopes of replicating it.

Maybe before spouting his ignorant opinions, Markk should research the industry, perhaps the world market for microchips, write a summary to show he has the barest understanding of what he's talking about, and then provide his reasons for why Trump's way is the best way and Biden was just wasting money that we can't pay back. If he's not worried about our inability to make chips because we don't know how to make a machine the makes the smallest chips, then he should state his industry, perhaps trucks or power tools, summarize the world market, and then explain how a tariff is expected to bring manufacturing to the US in a way that provides a high salary for millions of Americans.

Lol, maybe you should read what I have been posting more carefully. He should be worried it had dropped to 10% market share from almost 100% when we innovated chips. Everything from a coffee maker to a fighter jet depend on chips. Free trade which has been championed by every president (< Trump) since Clinton, including Biden as Senator, VP, and kind of as President, he even lied about it later after he had voted for it, and said he didn't or some other excuse. Trump opposed it in the late 80's and 90's. Free trade destroyed our chip share and it allowed them to backward engineer much quicker in that we basically gave them schematics so they could make them cheaper.

Biden gave 53 billion. It takes around 15 billion to build a plant, and they are obsolete in 5 years. In order to make this profitable, it takes a lot more than that, it is really nothing. We need to catch up for decades lost. There are just a few tech companies the can make high quality high tech chips. The world produces over 1 trillion chips a year.

Trump just made a deal with Taiwan (TSCM), one of the leaders, if not THE leader in high tech chips to invest 100 billion dollars in the US, who also have the means to up grade on their dime as the technology improves. I was listening to a podcast on chips, and chips are projected to become as small as a atom. I can't fathom that, remotely, yet, we had better get a hold on this and Trump just made a huge step. Is what he did good or bad? Obviously this has other strategic implications.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/tsmc ... 025-03-03/

What was Bidens plan beyond signing a blank check given all your knowledge on the subject? What is the Democratic caucus plan?

[Markk]

Next....

High Speed Rail: The Brightline West High Speed Rail project is made possible by the Biden-Harris Administration’s Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. The Department of Transportation plans to provide $3 billion in federal funding to Brightline West for the rail project, which will create 35,000 construction jobs and 1,000 permanent positions when completed in 2028. The railroad is projected to carry 8 million passengers a year between Las Vegas and Los Angeles. Because of the work of the Biden-Harris Administration, it is estimated that more than 95 percent of the total direct dollar expenditures for the Project will be spent on domestically sourced products and labor. The project sponsors also established a commitment with several craft rail unions for the use of highly skilled union labor in critical operations and maintenance jobs. The memorandum of understanding with the High-Speed Rail Labor Coalition is comprised of 13 rail unions representing more than 160,000 freight, regional, commuter, and passenger railroad workers in the United States.

Maybe you have been out of Ca. for too long. Trains don't work here. John and Ken, now just John, KFI 640, have beaten this horse to death for over a decade or two, along with the train to nowhere. It is not Bidens idea. You can google it. Will it create jobs....yes, for sure. Will it be profitable, I doubt it. It starts withing a few miles from the Ontario airport and one can fly for about the same price. If Vegas foots the costs fine, but if not it will be a loser. If it does work great but, I don't see this a major game changer. Risk reward does not pan out. Would I try it, maybe it would be fun, but typically I would just drive. I can drive there in 3.5 - 4 hours for about 150 dollars or less with a full car load, say 4 people. If I fly or drive it would be $800.00 for 4, plus long term parking, plus car rental. Your are talking 1200 buck vs 150.....what would you do? The risks reward are too steep in my opinion.

Keep in mind also with having to get to the terminal in time, 3 stops along the way, transfers and/or rental cars it may take longer than driving....I can most likely drive faster, or close enough to save time money.

I hope it does work though. It was hardly Bidens plan.

https://www.ktnv.com/vegastrainhistory

[Markk]

Next....

I'll just bold this Biden policy:

Clean Energy Manufacturing: The Biden-Harris climate and infrastructure laws have spurred a boom in American clean energy manufacturing as factories break ground nationwide to make electric vehicle batteries, solar and wind components, and other nuts and bolts of the growing clean energy economy. Since President Biden and Vice President Harris took office, companies have announced more than $250 billion in investments in American clean energy and electric vehicle manufacturing, creating new U.S. manufacturing jobs and helping communities that have been left behind make a comeback. While federal agencies deploy unprecedented investments to support American manufacturing, the Biden-Harris Administration has also taken bold action to protect America’s growing clean energy manufacturing workforce from unfair trade practices in China by increasing tariffs on imports from China in strategic sectors such as electric vehicles, batteries, critical minerals, solar cells, and steel and aluminum.

Next...

Construction Materials: The President announced in the 2023 State of the Union that the Federal government would take steps to ensure construction materials that are used in projects that it funds, from copper and aluminum to fiber optic cable, lumber, and drywall, are made in America. The Biden-Harris Administration has since delivered on that commitment, and these standards now apply to virtually all infrastructure spending supported by Federal financial assistance. Meanwhile, thanks to the historic investments in the Biden-Harris climate law, the Department of Energy recently announced more than $6 billion in industrial decarbonization grants to deploy game-changing technologies for steel, aluminum, cement, and other foundational materials. The Biden-Harris Administration also launched the Federal Buy Clean Initiative, to leverage the U.S. government’s purchasing power to spur demand for clean construction materials, like concrete, asphalt, steel and glass. Federal agencies are currently deploying more than $4 billion under Buy Clean.

May be you can expound on this one a bit more. How will these grants be spent and who will get them?

Next...

Personal Protective Equipment: The Make PPE in America Act, which was signed into law as part of Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, requires the Departments of Homeland Security, Health and Human Services and Veterans Affairs, to purchase American-made personal protected equipment (PPE). The COVID-19 pandemic made clear the need to reduce U.S. reliance on essential foreign goods like PPE. To minimize this vulnerability, this law seeks to ensure that PPE will be made here in America, support domestic manufacturing, create good-paying jobs, and build resilient supply chains.

I agree with this one, I am not sure of the impact, but we got caught with our pants down during covid.

[canpakes]

Broadband: <snip>

This was authorized in 2021, and to date, not one connection has been made. And it is tax payer money. It is a mess from everything I have read and is being revamped.

Markk, I notice that you’re often trying to tell me what I supposedly believe or support, but usually your recaps aren’t quite correct. OK, I ‘get’ that’s part of how you debate. But then you sometimes pile old, incomplete or bad information on top of that. I’ve picked out the subject above, about the broadband initiative, and your claim that ‘not one connection has been made’.

What are the actual facts?

“In 2022, through a competitive process, NTIA awarded a collective $282.7 million to 13 states and one territory to expand broadband infrastructure. Since then, BIP awardees have made high-speed Internet service available to more than 40,000 previously unserved households, nearly 3,000 businesses, and more than 130 community anchor institutions (like schools and libraries) to date. Additionally, they have constructed or upgraded more than 2,750 miles of fiber.”

https://www.ntia.gov/blog/2024/leading- ... of%20fiber.

You’ll have to update your anti-Biden talking points on that one.

Regardless, your dancing around the tariff issue by trying to disprove any effort by the Biden Administration to improve US manufacturing remains just an obvious attempt at distraction. You can keep trying to duck out of explaining how raising the cost of goods by 25% will bring about a renaissance in US manufacturing, and you can keep trying to duck out of what sorts of jobs will be created and at what wage to support the claim, and you can keep trying to duck out of discussing the realities of crushing struggling middle-class families by sucking money out of their pockets to pay for a tax cut for wealthy folks using broad tariffs. But it doesn’t change that fact that you’re basically just playing cheerleader with fluffy Trump babble.

Can you draw any sort of a straight-line connection between your incoming 25% tax on just about everything you’ll buy at Walmart next week, and a resurgent middle class? Are there no past examples to be found?

[Markk]

Markk, I notice that you’re often trying to tell me what I supposedly believe or support, but usually your recaps aren’t quite correct. OK, I ‘get’ that’s part of how you debate. But then you sometimes pile old, incomplete or bad information on top of that. I’ve picked out the subject above, about the broadband initiative, and your claim that ‘not one connection has been made’.

“In 2022, through a competitive process, NTIA awarded a collective $282.7 million to 13 states and one territory to expand broadband infrastructure. Since then, BIP awardees have made high-speed Internet service available to more than 40,000 previously unserved households, nearly 3,000 businesses, and more than 130 community anchor institutions (like schools and libraries) to date. Additionally, they have constructed or upgraded more than 2,750 miles of fiber.”

Lol....You ducked the ones that talked about Biden instituting tariffs as a plan to create more manufacturing jobs to protect them from China unfair trade practices.

And no, I am often trying to find out what you believe, and what the Democratic plan is. I know you support large trade deficits and free trade. So far that is about it.

I went off several reports. Which one do we believe? Here is left leaning Politico

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/0 ... s-00175845

The problem is you pasted a link to BIP a smaller program with about a 300 million dollar budget, while BEAD is a 42 Billion dollar program. The "Fact Check" you pasted a link to, and in which Politico is frustrated about is "BEAD"....not BIP.

This is what your link reads....

Broadband: The Biden-Harris Investing in America agenda includes historic funding for high-speed internet access, spurring hundreds of millions of dollars in investments in broadband manufacturing as numerous companies onshore and expand domestic manufacturing capacity.As a result of these policies, close to 90% of the funding spent on equipment for the $42.45 billion Broadband Equity, Access, and Deployment (BEAD) Program will be spent on equipment manufactured in the United States. Implementation of the BEAD Program is creating thousands of good-paying manufacturing jobs across the country — from Kenosha, Wisconsin to Hickory, North Carolina and Gilbert, Arizona. Workers in these communities are now producing broadband equipment, like fiber optic cable and key electronics, necessary to bring affordable, reliable high-speed internet to everyone in America.

Cakes: You’ll have to update your anti-Biden talking points on that one.

It is just low hanging fruit to say more. We all mis-read and screw things up, it is best to just admit it and move on.

[Markk]

Regardless, your dancing around the tariff issue by trying to disprove any effort by the Biden Administration to improve US manufacturing remains just an obvious attempt at distraction. You can keep trying to duck out of explaining how raising the cost of goods by 25% will bring about a renaissance in US manufacturing, and you can keep trying to duck out of what sorts of jobs will be created and at what wage to support the claim, and you can keep trying to duck out of discussing the realities of crushing struggling middle-class families by sucking money out of their pockets to pay for a tax cut for wealthy folks using broad tariffs. But it doesn’t change that fact that you’re basically just playing cheerleader with fluffy Trump babble.

Can you draw any sort of a straight-line connection between your incoming 25% tax on just about everything you’ll buy at Walmart next week, and a resurgent middle class? Are there no past examples to be found?

Lol....how? I asked you for Biden's plan, for the Harris plan, and for the current Democratic caucus' plan, and you said you didn't need to because of the links you provided. Well, after reading most of your links I honestly can not formulate a plan, or baseline for that plan. And to be clear I am not asking for your plan, but what the democratic parties plan is to regain manufacturing and the middle class. in my opinion that is a fair question.

Cake we will see on the 2nd what is tariff'd and what is not. Like I said, he uses them for leverage also. Was Biden tariff equally sucking money out of the middle class? Tariffs on steel and aluminum affect a lot of things, cakes.

CNN wrote...

The Biden administration said Friday that it has finalized tariff hikes on certain Chinese-made products that the president first announced in May.

The tariff rate will go up to 100% on electric vehicles, to 50% on solar cells and to 25% on electrical vehicle batteries, critical minerals, steel, aluminum, face masks and ship-to-shore cranes beginning September 27, according to the US Trade Representative’s Office.

Read this; why aren't you just as critical of Biden?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/13/politics ... index.html

Here the NYT states Biden was raising tariffs on clothing, syringes, and solar panels....up to 100%

Here is NPR:

https://www.npr.org/2024/08/28/nx-s1-50 ... their-jobs

Was raising tariffs part of Biden's plan and not the current caucus?

[canpakes]

This is what your link reads:

“Broadband: The Biden-Harris Investing in America agenda includes historic funding for high-speed internet access, spurring hundreds of millions of dollars in investments in broadband manufacturing as numerous companies onshore and expand domestic manufacturing capacity. As a result of these policies, close to 90% of the funding spent on equipment for the $42.45 billion Broadband Equity, Access, and Deployment (BEAD) Program will be spent on equipment manufactured in the United States. Implementation of the BEAD Program is creating thousands of good-paying manufacturing jobs across the country — from Kenosha, Wisconsin to Hickory, North Carolina and Gilbert, Arizona. Workers in these communities are now producing broadband equipment, like fiber optic cable and key electronics, necessary to bring affordable, reliable high-speed internet to everyone in America.”

To which you responded:

“This was authorized in 2021, and to date, not one connection has been made. And it is tax payer money. It is a mess from everything I have read and is being revamped.”

Here’s where you and I are diverging. The snip above addresses high-speed internet and broadband implementation as a component of the Biden Admin’s push for US manufacturing. It then specifically mentions BEAD, inasmuch as the equipment to implement it is being pushed to be manufactured stateside.

You deflected to hookups under BEAD. BEAD indeed has not made progress with hookups yet. But BEAD is only one of several concurrent Biden Admin programs (link below), and others have brought broadband to tens of thousands of users. Your comment only applies to BEAD hookups, and doesn’t disprove the specific mention regarding equipment manufacturing, or the completed hookups under other programs, either. Hence my reply.

Find more details on these programs here:

https://www.commerce.gov/news/blog/2024 ... a-reliable

Lol....You ducked the ones that talked about Biden instituting tariffs as a plan to create more manufacturing jobs to protect them from China unfair trade practices.

Wait … what? Biden instituted tariffs, and WE’RE NOT A MANUFACTURING SUPERPOWER YET … and it has been HOW MANY years?

Thank you for supporting my point about tariffs.

It took a while, but I figured you’d get there. . : D