Reasons people stopped attending church

[MG 2.0]

This might help:

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/ans ... f_glory%3F

Regards,
MG

Thanks for posting that link, it supports my points.

Halfies.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

In what way(s) is the Kingdoms of Glory theology different now than from when Smith wrote about it? How, specifically, has it evolved since then?

Bump

Breadth and depth.

How come I'm always the one answering questions and you seem to get a free pass.

C'mon. Do the thought experiment.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

Bump

Breadth and depth.

How come I'm always the one answering questions and you seem to get a free pass.

C'mon. Do the thought experiment.

Regards,
MG

I want specifics to back up your assertion. Explain what has changed, specifically, from D&C 76 to now? Or admit you misspoke and it hasn’t evolved at all.

[MG 2.0]

Breadth and depth.

How come I'm always the one answering questions and you seem to get a free pass.

C'mon. Do the thought experiment.

Regards,
MG

I want specifics to back up your assertion. Explain what has changed, specifically, from D&C 76 to now? Or admit you misspoke and it hasn’t evolved at all.

Section 76 hasn't changed. LDS views, as I've already mentioned, have brought breadth and depth to that section in the Doctrine and Covenants.

I think I'm done for now, IHQ. As I mentioned on another thread you seem to have the opinion that you are in a special category of asking questions but rarely, if ever, answering questions or taking up a challenge.

I've been somewhat patient with you...up to a point.

Later.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Breadth and depth.

How come I'm always the one answering questions and you seem to get a free pass.

C'mon. Do the thought experiment.

Regards,
MG

I want specifics to back up your assertion. Explain what has changed, specifically, from D&C 76 to now? Or admit you misspoke and it hasn’t evolved at all.

I don't know why mentalgymnast thinks it needs a random thought experiment. Nelson was pretty clear about what he thinks is in store for non-lds people in his 2019 gen conf talk as prophet of the lds church:

...I also weep for such friends and relatives. They are wonderful men and women, devoted to their family and civic responsibilities. They give generously of their time, energy, and resources. And the world is better for their efforts. But they have chosen not to make covenants with God. They have not received the ordinances that will exalt them with their families and bind them together forever...

They need to understand that while there is a place for them hereafter—with wonderful men and women who also chose not to make covenants with God—that is not the place where families will be reunited and be given the privilege to live and progress forever. That is not the kingdom where they will experience the fulness of joy—of never-ending progression and happiness.

Those consummate blessings can come only by living in an exalted celestial realm with God, our Eternal Father; His Son, Jesus Christ; and our wonderful, worthy, and qualified family members.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... n?lang=eng

Mormons. Guaranteeing Families Will NOT Be Together Forever. Nelson deserves a very special hell for saying the above.

[sock puppet]

I want specifics to back up your assertion. Explain what has changed, specifically, from D&C 76 to now? Or admit you misspoke and it hasn’t evolved at all.

I don't know why mentalgymnast thinks it needs a random thought experiment. Nelson was pretty clear about what he thinks is in store for non-lds people in his 2019 gen conf talk as prophet of the LDS church:

...I also weep for such friends and relatives. They are wonderful men and women, devoted to their family and civic responsibilities. They give generously of their time, energy, and resources. And the world is better for their efforts. But they have chosen not to make covenants with God. They have not received the ordinances that will exalt them with their families and bind them together forever...

They need to understand that while there is a place for them hereafter—with wonderful men and women who also chose not to make covenants with God—that is not the place where families will be reunited and be given the privilege to live and progress forever. That is not the kingdom where they will experience the fulness of joy—of never-ending progression and happiness.

Those consummate blessings can come only by living in an exalted celestial realm with God, our Eternal Father; His Son, Jesus Christ; and our wonderful, worthy, and qualified family members.


https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... n?lang=eng

Mormons. Guaranteeing Families Will NOT Be Together Forever. Nelson deserves a very special hell for saying the above.

Some Mormons--perhaps MG 2.0 is numbered among them--have already begun to disregard Nelson, since he's out of it mentally anyway. So Nelson's teachings have already been binned as 'musings by past prophets' by many Mormons. The forward-thinking Mormons are hanging on every word from Bednar, since Oaks will be a relatively brief place holder. More brief by every day that Nelson's heart keeps on pumping.

[Gadianton]

Over the long haul...eternity is a long time...I would like to be in a position to become more and more like God and do some of the same stuff (on a much smaller scale initially) that He does. But there would be so much more to learn and become proficient in. It's actually beyond my imagination at this point.

But to be on the path and know that God could trust me with His knowledge and power. Wow!!

Sounds like a pretty good gig.

Wow yeah, totally. Let me help you imagine a few things. First of all, if you have any people you care about in the Telestial kingdom, you will never see them again for all eternity. Noted that you are good with that.

Let me tell you some of the things you'll need to learn. The vast majority of your inhabitants will suffer. A lot. Imagine this, 24/7 millions are praying to you. Many of those are prayers are from people being brutalized, killed, tortured, raped, they are screaming and calling out to you, and you not only hear the prayer, but as you become omniscient like God, you see everything they are going through. You get to watch people getting cut up and tortured constantly -- they cry out in prayer, and you have to just ignore it and let them suffer.

You good with that? Noted.

[MG 2.0]

Over the long haul...eternity is a long time...I would like to be in a position to become more and more like God and do some of the same stuff (on a much smaller scale initially) that He does. But there would be so much more to learn and become proficient in. It's actually beyond my imagination at this point.

But to be on the path and know that God could trust me with His knowledge and power. Wow!!

Sounds like a pretty good gig.

Wow yeah, totally. Let me help you imagine a few things. First of all, if you have any people you care about in the Telestial kingdom, you will never see them again for all eternity. Noted that you are good with that.

I wouldn't be if that was true. Non sequitur.

Let me tell you some of the things you'll need to learn. The vast majority of your inhabitants will suffer. A lot. Imagine this, 24/7 millions are praying to you. Many of those are prayers are from people being brutalized, killed, tortured, raped, they are screaming and calling out to you, and you not only hear the prayer, but as you become omniscient like God, you see everything they are going through. You get to watch people getting cut up and tortured constantly -- they cry out in prayer, and you have to just ignore it and let them suffer.

You good with that? Noted.

There may be more to it.

The question of why God allows suffering, especially given His omniscience and omnipotence, has been a central challenge in theology and philosophy for centuries, often referred to as the problem of evil. Various perspectives attempt to reconcile this issue, offering insights into how suffering might fit within God's purposes.

Theological Responses to Suffering
Free Will and the Fall
One common explanation is rooted in the concept of free will. According to Christian theology, God created humans with free will, enabling them to make choices. However, humanity's rejection of God (often referred to as "the Fall") introduced sin and suffering into the world. This perspective argues that suffering is a consequence of human actions rather than a direct act of God. Free will is seen as necessary for genuine love and moral responsibility, even though it allows for evil.

Soul-Building and Growth
Another view suggests that suffering serves as a means of spiritual growth or "soul-building." This perspective posits that enduring trials can develop virtues such as patience, compassion, and resilience. Biblical references support this idea, emphasizing how suffering can refine character and deepen faith (e.g., Romans 5:3-5).

Higher-Order Goods
The "higher-order goods" theodicy argues that certain virtues—such as courage, forgiveness, and compassion—can only exist in response to suffering or evil. For example, forgiveness presupposes wrongdoing, and courage requires danger. In this view, God permits suffering to allow these goods to flourish.

God’s Solidarity with Suffering
Christianity uniquely emphasizes God's presence in human suffering through Jesus Christ. The crucifixion is seen as evidence that God is not indifferent to pain but intimately familiar with it. Jesus' suffering on the cross demonstrates solidarity with humanity's anguish and offers hope for redemption. This perspective assures believers that God is not distant but actively involved in their struggles.

Mystery and Trust
Many theologians acknowledge that humans may not fully comprehend God's reasons for allowing suffering due to their limited perspective compared to God's infinite wisdom. This concept is often referred to as inscrutability. The story of Job in the Bible illustrates this: Job suffers greatly but is never given a direct explanation by God. Instead, he is encouraged to trust in God's greater plan.

Redemption and Eternal Perspective
From an eternal perspective, suffering is often viewed as temporary and meaningful within God's ultimate plan. Christianity teaches that God will ultimately restore justice, heal all wounds, and "wipe away every tear" (Revelation 21:4). This belief provides hope that present pain will be redeemed in eternity.

Critiques of Divine Indifference
Critics argue that allowing immense suffering—especially when omnipotence could prevent it—might imply callousness or indifference on God's part. Some suggest this creates tension between God's omnibenevolence (perfect goodness) and omnipotence (unlimited power). However, proponents of the above theodicies counter that God's allowance of suffering serves higher purposes beyond human understanding.

In summary, theological responses to suffering emphasize themes like free will, spiritual growth, divine solidarity through Christ's suffering, inscrutability, and ultimate redemption. While these explanations may not alleviate the emotional weight of witnessing or experiencing profound pain, they aim to provide a framework for understanding its place within a broader divine context.
Perplexity A.I.

I'm MG and I approve this message.

Why should I take you seriously?

Regards,
MG

[drumdude]

I want specifics to back up your assertion. Explain what has changed, specifically, from D&C 76 to now? Or admit you misspoke and it hasn’t evolved at all.

I don't know why mentalgymnast thinks it needs a random thought experiment. Nelson was pretty clear about what he thinks is in store for non-lds people in his 2019 gen conf talk as prophet of the LDS church:

...I also weep for such friends and relatives. They are wonderful men and women, devoted to their family and civic responsibilities. They give generously of their time, energy, and resources. And the world is better for their efforts. But they have chosen not to make covenants with God. They have not received the ordinances that will exalt them with their families and bind them together forever...

They need to understand that while there is a place for them hereafter—with wonderful men and women who also chose not to make covenants with God—that is not the place where families will be reunited and be given the privilege to live and progress forever. That is not the kingdom where they will experience the fulness of joy—of never-ending progression and happiness.

Those consummate blessings can come only by living in an exalted celestial realm with God, our Eternal Father; His Son, Jesus Christ; and our wonderful, worthy, and qualified family members.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... n?lang=eng

Mormons. Guaranteeing Families Will NOT Be Together Forever. Nelson deserves a very special hell for saying the above.

It’s such a smarmy used car salesman sales pitch.

[I Have Questions]

I want specifics to back up your assertion. Explain what has changed, specifically, from D&C 76 to now? Or admit you misspoke and it hasn’t evolved at all.

I don't know why mentalgymnast thinks it needs a random thought experiment. Nelson was pretty clear about what he thinks is in store for non-lds people in his 2019 gen conf talk as prophet of the LDS church:

...I also weep for such friends and relatives. They are wonderful men and women, devoted to their family and civic responsibilities. They give generously of their time, energy, and resources. And the world is better for their efforts. But they have chosen not to make covenants with God. They have not received the ordinances that will exalt them with their families and bind them together forever...

They need to understand that while there is a place for them hereafter—with wonderful men and women who also chose not to make covenants with God—that is not the place where families will be reunited and be given the privilege to live and progress forever. That is not the kingdom where they will experience the fulness of joy—of never-ending progression and happiness.

Those consummate blessings can come only by living in an exalted celestial realm with God, our Eternal Father; His Son, Jesus Christ; and our wonderful, worthy, and qualified family members.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... n?lang=eng

Mormons. Guaranteeing Families Will NOT Be Together Forever. Nelson deserves a very special hell for saying the above.

You will note that Nelson also clarifies that people won’t progress from kingdom to kingdom.