I like the way Dawkins drew a distinction between faith and trust in The God Delusion. Faith is believing because you want to believe but have no good reason to believe. Trust is not knowing but believing based on past experience.
I would say science is largely about trust, not faith.
I agree. In Hebrews 11:1 it says "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." This, to me, is a prime example of a scripture that contains both wisdom and nonsense in the very same sentence. I can accept first part that "faith is the substance of things hoped for", but I reject the second part that faith is "the evidence of things not seen." Faith when tempered by evidence and reason might be more valuable and satisfying than evidence alone and can lead to discovery of further evidence, but faith by itself is neither evidence nor an adequate substitute for evidence. An analogy I like to use is a place value numerical notation system using ones and zeros. A one by itself has a positive value of "1" but zero by itself signifies "0." If we put a "0" to the right of a "1", we get "10" which signifies a greater value than the "1" by itself. But if we have only "1" we still have something, whereas if we have only "0", it signifies nothing, no matter how many "0's" we have. Similarly, if all we have is blind faith unsupported by evidence and sound reason, we really have nothing.
Gunnar, l have never been completely comfortable with that scripture. It is possible that evidence is not referring to what supports your faith, what you see but instead the good you show evidencing your faith to others and God. The passage does continue discussing faithful action not arguments to believe.
Adding, I do not think Dawkins knows what faith is. His experience may be limited.
People who believe in their god concept always have the misconception that atheists don't understand their "relationship with god" because they can't imagine atheists having moving emotional experiences. Atheists have moments of mystical wonderment too. They just don't make the leap from moving experience to there must be a universe manufacturer making me feel this way.
Faith is a weak excuse for believing unjustified ideas, ideas that can only be propped up with the age-old propaganda known as "the value of faith." Faith is the worst reason to believe anything. Plain and simple.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.
People who believe in their god concept always have the misconception that atheists don't understand their "relationship with god" because they can't imagine atheists having moving emotional experiences. Atheists have moments of mystical wonderment too. They just don't make the leap from moving experience to there must be a universe manufacturer making me feel this way.
Faith is a weak excuse for believing unjustified ideas, ideas that can only be propped up with the age-old propaganda known as "the value of faith." Faith is the worst reason to believe anything. Plain and simple.
Hi Some Schmo, reasonable question. I have had a variety of moving mystical experiences, some life renewing and memorable. They did not all move toward faith. Most could leave me an atheist.
I think human experience has a spectrum between the two poles Dawkins presents. If faith means accepting things without question and holding them in a place beyond question, then I can see it as negative as your observation.
Faith can be seen as resulting from understood harmony with fundamental values, those more important than l wish for treats. Faith is connected to spiritual experience and prayer. There is the observation of beauty and life in the world which can be faith. Faith always has an uncertainty which means it should always be open to questions.
I am aware of the possibility that there is no God yet God inspires and gives direction to my actual living. So faith is a living process.
People who believe in their god concept always have the misconception that atheists don't understand their "relationship with god" because they can't imagine atheists having moving emotional experiences. Atheists have moments of mystical wonderment too. They just don't make the leap from moving experience to there must be a universe manufacturer making me feel this way.
Faith is a weak excuse for believing unjustified ideas, ideas that can only be propped up with the age-old propaganda known as "the value of faith." Faith is the worst reason to believe anything. Plain and simple.
Hi Some Schmo, reasonable question. I have had a variety of moving mystical experiences, some life renewing and memorable. They did not all move toward faith. Most could leave me an atheist.
I think human experience has a spectrum between the two poles Dawkins presents. If faith means accepting things without question and holding them in a place beyond question, then I can see it as negative as your observation.
Faith can be seen as resulting from understood harmony with fundamental values, those more important than l wish for treats. Faith is connected to spiritual experience and prayer. There is the observation of beauty and life in the world which can be faith. Faith always has an uncertainty which means it should always be open to questions.
I am aware of the possibility that there is no God yet God inspires and gives direction to my actual living. So faith is a living process.
I understand this line of thinking, because emotional experiences give us pause and make us think about things deeply. The only real difference between us is that you attribute those experiences to something you call god and I just think of it as human biology. To call adhering to fundamental values faith is to disregard all the real reasons people stick to their values. The motivation for my own morality is both practical and out of a feeling of kinship with other animals. It has nothing to do with an imagined creator.
Whenever someone describes their god experience, I'm struck with how it all works after careful internal construction. No outside forces can penetrate the personally built wall people call faith unless they want it penetrated. It's been practiced by humans for centuries. The poison of tradition.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.
Yep! It is true that prominent members have said these things. Prominent members have played an important role in defying, opposing, and fighting Trump. But the LDS Church does not go after the support of evil political leaders. They just don’t touch that with official Church opposition.
The only thing Mormonism does officially anymore is sue the living hell out of small towns in order to bully their way into making their gaudy god ugly temples for their quirky actions in them, such as in Fairview which caved to the bullying of Mormonism. Is it any wonder we leave it, but won't leave it alone?
Probably the stupidest comment about race I've read in the past year. I realize that Hound did not invent this mutated version of the word racism. It has been around for a few years and seems to have been programmed into his machinery.
It is the austerity mindset. You can only care about one "race" at a time. I chose the human race.
Before Trump crushes Harvard, he needs to be removed. Otherwise, Trump will do this to America.
I agree, but Congress isn’t going to do it.
"I have learned with what evils tyranny infects a state. For it frustrates all the virtues, robs freedom of its lofty mood, and opens a school of fawning and terror, inasmuch as it leaves matters not to the wisdom of the laws, but to the angry whim of those who are in authority.”
Before Trump crushes Harvard, he needs to be removed. Otherwise, Trump will do this to America.
I agree, but Congress isn’t going to do it.
And it can't wait until midterms either. Congress is filled with morons. Whether they grow a spine and take the high road or not. They're going to be out of a job either way. It's only a matter of time.
LIGHT HAS A NAME
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF
