The Lord was behind the recent financial fraud scandal.

[I Have Questions]

- They (FP and PB) actively managed this strategy over decades, directing the expansion of shell companies to continue to hide public disclosure of their full investment fund balances.

- They were given feedback from their auditing teams at least twice that the SEC will most likely not look kindly about this.

- They (FP and PB) put members in leadership positions in the shell companies and created a process where those leaders committed perjury (i.e., signing documents affirming knowledge they did NOT have).
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mormon/comment ... n/jbpe3ay/

I bolded the point that hits very hard. This was an active fraud that the LDS leaders perpetrated. There is no excuse for that.

That cuts to the heart of the seriousness of this, and there are huge implications.

1. The First Presidency wilfully committed an act that they knew to be wrong.
2. It wasn’t a single rogue actor, because the wrongful act was continued by subsequent First Presidencies.
3. They had to be forced to do the right thing.
4. They coerced innocents into complicity with their financial shell game.
5. After being caught red handed, they didn’t apologise to the membership.
6. Even now they are trying to portray that Church finances are managed honourably in The Lords way, trying to whitewash the incident from the history of the Church.

If ever you needed proof that the leadership of the Church is corrupt and not to be trusted, this was it.

[Morley]

Why the church is being lambasted by critics for doing so is somewhat puzzling. The Lord, I would think, would want to have his house a house of order. The work would not be able to continue and sustain itself AS IT IS if not for only the financial contributions of its members but also the "additional funds" referred to. The church has had problems in its past with debt vs. income. In fact, I would not hesitate to say that the church may have a certain degree of PTSD in the fact that with its worldwide operations and the many temples and educational systems, etc., it doesn't even want to come CLOSE to a debt vs. income problem ever again.
They are doing a pretty good job. And they've made course corrections along the way.
Regards,
MG

MG, I think this is a great point. The critics need to back off.

The Church is led by God. We forget that God, however, is bad with finances. He created the The Kirtland Safety Society, the banking scandal that nearly broke the nascent religion in its early days. He suggested the path that created the financial problems the Church would have in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. Why would we condemn God for a little hoarding and prevarication now? He's doing the best He can with what He has.

It's clear that we're expecting too much from the omnipotent creator of the universe. Not everyone is good at balancing their checkbooks.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Why the church is being lambasted by critics for doing so is somewhat puzzling. The Lord, I would think, would want to have his house a house of order. The work would not be able to continue and sustain itself AS IT IS if not for only the financial contributions of its members but also the "additional funds" referred to. The church has had problems in its past with debt vs. income. In fact, I would not hesitate to say that the church may have a certain degree of PTSD in the fact that with its worldwide operations and the many temples and educational systems, etc., it doesn't even want to come CLOSE to a debt vs. income problem ever again.
They are doing a pretty good job. And they've made course corrections along the way.
Regards,
MG

MG, I think this is a great point. The critics need to back off.

The Church is led by God. We forget that God, however, is bad with finances. He created the The Kirtland Safety Society, the banking scandal that nearly broke the nascent religion in its early days. He suggested the path that created the financial problems the Church would have in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. Why would we condemn God for a little hoarding and prevarication now? He's doing the best He can with what He has.

It's clear that we're expecting too much from the omnipotent creator of the universe. Not everyone is good at balancing their checkbooks.

Morley, I agree. We are probably expecting too much from the creator of the universe. My Uncle Raymond is the same way. We love him to death but we are all resigned to the fact that he will never be good with finances and will never learn to balance his checkbook.

[I Have Questions]

MG, I think this is a great point. The critics need to back off.

The Church is led by God. We forget that God, however, is bad with finances. He created the The Kirtland Safety Society, the banking scandal that nearly broke the nascent religion in its early days. He suggested the path that created the financial problems the Church would have in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. Why would we condemn God for a little hoarding and prevarication now? He's doing the best He can with what He has.

It's clear that we're expecting too much from the omnipotent creator of the universe. Not everyone is good at balancing their checkbooks.

Morley, I agree. We are probably expecting too much from the creator of the universe. My Uncle Raymond is the same way. We love him to death but we are all resigned to the fact that he will never be good with finances and will never learn to balance his checkbook.

I think you’re being a little hard on your Uncle Raymond, unless he too has operated a multi-decade reporting avoidance financial fraud, like the one His Mormon Omnipotence has been caught doing.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Morley, I agree. We are probably expecting too much from the creator of the universe. My Uncle Raymond is the same way. We love him to death but we are all resigned to the fact that he will never be good with finances and will never learn to balance his checkbook.

I think you’re being a little hard on your Uncle Raymond, unless he too has operated a multi-decade reporting avoidance financial fraud, like the one His Mormon Omnipotence has been caught doing.

Good point.

[sock puppet]

As a reminder…this is what the Church confessed to doing…
In a new essay the leaders of the Church lay the blame for the scheme to hide funds and defraud the SEC firmly on The Lord. So there you have it, The Lord directed his leaders to come up with a complex and deliberate system of defrauding the SEC and misleading the membership as to the state of the Church’s finances.

In that same essay we also find this;

In the 1960s, after a period of financial struggle due to international growth and an expansive building program, the Church strengthened its financial plan, limited expenses, and set aside a portion of the donations it received. This helped the Church repay its debts and gradually build a financial reserve.

Much of the Church’s current growth is occurring in regions of the world that are still developing economically. Members in economically disadvantaged areas demonstrate faith in Jesus Christ by giving tithes and offerings. These tithes and offerings are meaningful contributions that help to move the Lord’s work forward. Yet additional funds are needed to support the Church in those regions. Sustaining continued Church growth in these areas of the world requires substantial resources.

Today, the Church avoids debt and maintains financial reserves. These reserves are intended not only to meet current needs but also to accomplish the Church’s mission in the future, including during periods of economic difficulty.

Why the church is being lambasted by critics for doing so is somewhat puzzling. The Lord, I would think, would want to have his house a house of order. The work would not be able to continue and sustain itself AS IT IS if not for only the financial contributions of its members but also the "additional funds" referred to. The church has had problems in its past with debt vs. income. In fact, I would not hesitate to say that the church may have a certain degree of PTSD in the fact that with its worldwide operations and the many temples and educational systems, etc., it doesn't even want to come CLOSE to a debt vs. income problem ever again.

They are doing a pretty good job. And they've made course corrections along the way.

Regards,
MG

Correcting your last sentence to be in line with the LDS church's new essay

They areElohim is doing a pretty good job. And they'veHe's made course corrections along the way.

[Mag’ladroth]

Blaming God for committing securities fraud is very on brand for Mormonism.

[MG 2.0]

Blaming God for committing securities fraud is very on brand for Mormonism.

On brand for Mormon critics, that is.

One might ask why the God of the Universe would be involved in the day-to-day, month-to-month operations of an institutional church in regard to its finances.

Where would the learning/responsibility/progress/accountability take place among the humans involved in the process? It's not all about getting everything right all the time.

Things are working out. The Church is in very good financial shape. Course corrections have been made.

Critics probably wish it was otherwise...that the church was struggling financially.

I'm glad the church has enough and to spare to take care of all the financial responsibilities and liabilities that it has so that the gospel can continue to move forth.

Regards,
MG

[Mag’ladroth]

Blaming God for committing securities fraud is very on brand for Mormonism.

On brand for Mormon critics, that is.

One might ask why the God of the Universe would be involved in the day-to-day, month-to-month operations of an institutional church in regard to its finances.

Where would the learning/responsibility/progress/accountability take place among the humans involved in the process? It's not all about getting everything right all the time.

Things are working out. The Church is in very good financial shape. Course corrections have been made.

Critics probably wish it was otherwise...that the church was struggling financially.

I'm glad the church has enough and to spare to take care of all the financial responsibilities and liabilities that it has so that the gospel can continue to move forth.

Regards,
MG

Summary: one giant deflection combined with a side of persecution complex and a smidge of ad hom sauce.

The basic facts of the matter is that the Church leadership directed Ensign Peak to commit securities fraud. For decades. All while preaching honesty. Jesus says that’s hypocrisy, in fact the hypocrisy He derides in Matthew 7:1-6 and what the Apostle Paul warns against in Romans 2:1-24.

Keep in mind it’s not me saying the church did this, it’s the United States Federal Government.

Then your church comes out and says, “Oh God was telling us to be dishonest hypocrites!” Yikes.

[MG 2.0]

On brand for Mormon critics, that is.

One might ask why the God of the Universe would be involved in the day-to-day, month-to-month operations of an institutional church in regard to its finances.

Where would the learning/responsibility/progress/accountability take place among the humans involved in the process? It's not all about getting everything right all the time.

Things are working out. The Church is in very good financial shape. Course corrections have been made.

Critics probably wish it was otherwise...that the church was struggling financially.

I'm glad the church has enough and to spare to take care of all the financial responsibilities and liabilities that it has so that the gospel can continue to move forth.

Regards,
MG

Summary: one giant deflection combined with a side of persecution complex and a smidge of ad hom sauce.

The basic facts of the matter is that the Church leadership directed Ensign Peak to commit securities fraud. For decades. All while preaching honesty. Jesus says that’s hypocrisy, in fact the hypocrisy He derides in Matthew 7:1-6 and what the Apostle Paul warns against in Romans 2:1-24.

Keep in mind it’s not me saying the church did this, it’s the United States Federal Government.

Then your church comes out and says, “Oh God was telling us to be dishonest hypocrites!” Yikes.

I suppose there is more than one way to look at it. I've already expressed my views, now you have expressed yours.

Regards,
MG