Trump and Harvard

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Gunnar
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Re: Trump and Harvard

Post by Gunnar »

Trump's war on free speech just got personal | Opinion

It is no longer reasonable to deny Trump is indeed trying to wage against freedom of speech.
Just as another judge conveyed his outrage at Donald Trump’s use of “staggering punishment” to silence his critics, the administration has begun exporting its war on the First Amendment. This week, the State Department announced that it is formally increasing “social media vetting” for all student and exchange visitor visa applicants. Enhanced “vetting” means federal employees will scourge the laptops, cellphones and personal devices of applicants seeking entry to the US on F, M, or J visas to see what they’ve posted, re-posted, engaged with, and liked on their personal Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube, WhatsApp, and Instagram accounts.

The move comes on the heels of escalated attacks against universities including Harvard, where Trump went straight to cancelling foreign student visas on May 22, a move blocked by a federal judge on May 29. Trump not only hopes to cripple America’s most iconic and independent educational institutions, he seeks to infuse higher learning with Trump-aligned political propaganda.

Setting aside the ick factor of a bunch of suits poring over teenagers’ hypersexualized social media accounts, that Trump is employing the ruse of “antisemitism” to attack fundamental freedoms is an affront to Jews everywhere. Peace-loving Jews who are committed to personal freedoms and social justice don’t appreciate it. In April, 800 Jewish professors, scholars and students advised the Trump administration that targeting universities to impose a political litmus test “did nothing to protect Jews, and in fact, could be used to target them.” Twelve national Jewish organizations, including J Street and T’ruah, have warned that Trump’s use of antisemitism to justify suppressing political dissent threatens Jewish safety as well as democracy itself.
If this isn't enough to convince anyone that Trump is more than willing to violate the First Amendment what will?
When the government engages in viewpoint discrimination, it singles out a particular opinion, perspective or “viewpoint” for treatment that differs from how other viewpoints are treated. Viewpoint discrimination, where the government persecutes or otherwise punishes someone for expressing views it dislikes or disagrees with, is illegal.

'Homegrowns are next': Trump hopes to deport and jail U.S. citizens abroad

In 1995, the Supreme Court explained: “When the government targets not subject matter but particular views taken by speakers on a subject, the violation of the First Amendment is all the more blatant. Viewpoint discrimination is thus an egregious form of content discrimination. The government must abstain from regulating speech when the specific motivating ideology or the opinion or perspective of the speaker is the rationale for the restriction.”

Someone needs to read that memo to Trump’s legal advisors, who, under the ruse of “combatting antisemitism” concocted Trump’s executive order, “PROTECTING THE UNITED STATES FROM FOREIGN TERRORISTS AND OTHER NATIONAL SECURITY AND PUBLIC SAFETY THREATS.”
Of course if anyone in Trump's administration actually reads that memo to Trump or his legal advisors, they will be immediately fired!
Under the lizard-brain braggadocio of that executive order, the administration announced its intention to “ensure that admitted aliens” in the US do not “bear hostile attitudes” toward the government. Given the depth and breadth of Trump’s illegal attacks against law firms that represented his political adversaries, mainstream media outlets that criticize him, and universities protecting academic freedoms, it is fair to assume that “hostile attitudes toward the government” means whatever Trump and his unqualified goons say it means.

Trump’s insecurities are churning

As Trump officials invade the privacy of international travelers by scrutinizing their social media accounts, administration officials are making it up as they go along. During Trump’s first administration, officials declared that, “Every visa adjudication is a national security decision,” but what constitutes “national security” changes by the hour, on whim.

Trump’s obvious goal is to impose a political litmus test under which only pro-Trump, anti-liberal, and for now pro-Netanyahu visa holders are permitted entry. People who criticize the war in Gaza need not apply today. Tomorrow, the ban will apply to anyone who criticizes Trump’s destabilizing tariffs, his efforts to accelerate climate change, or his unprecedented corruption.

Secretary of State Marco Rubio claimed last month that the State Department was revoking visas held by visitors who were acting “counter to national interests.” Despite campaigning on an isolationist agenda, apparently, Israel’s war in Gaza is now America’s war, because criticizing it is deemed “counter to US interests.” According to an Associated Press review, students at more than 160 colleges and universities have had their visas revoked or their legal status terminated for expressing the wrong opinion, unprecedented aggression that has “stunned colleges” across the country.
Even nonstudent travelers and U.S citizens returning from overseas are not safe from being detained and interrogated about their ideological and political sympathies before being allowed to enter or reenter the country.
As Trump spreads his thin-skinned efforts to kill the First Amendment, reports from non-student travelers are surfacing. Travelers report that they are “preparing for the worst” by deleting social media apps, destroying text messages, and removing identifiers from personal devices. After US citizens started reporting on TikTok that they were detained for hours on re-entry, an immigration lawyer’s video on citizens’ rights racked up more than 8 million views.

Reports of long detainments, deportations and higher personal scrutiny at airports are causing anxiety among US citizens. Americans who oppose Trump — over half the country — are starting to rethink upcoming trips, out of fear of being interrogated, detained, or worse when they return home.

While U.S. citizens can be detained at the border and made to feel fearful or uncomfortable, under federal law they cannot be denied entry or put into detention without reasonable suspicion similar to (but not the same as) probable cause. American citizens also have the right to remain silent to border agent questions. If a border patrol agent asks you for the password(s) to unlock your devices, understand that U.S. citizens cannot be denied entry for refusing to provide passwords or unlocking devices. However, your refusal might lead to significant delay, intense questioning, and/or officers seizing your device for further inspection.

As a US citizen coming back into the US, you may be questioned, have your luggage confiscated, and undergo intense scrutiny based on jacked up suspicions of a bored and/or power drunk border patrol agent.

But, at least as of this writing, US citizens who criticize Trump cannot yet be deported to El Salvador. Trump is working on that.
'Homegrowns are next': Trump hopes to deport and jail U.S. citizens abroad
President Trump says his administration is actively exploring a proposal to detain U.S. citizens and send them to prisons in El Salvador. Speaking Monday, minutes before a press briefing alongside El Salvador's president, Nayib Bukele, Trump could be heard embracing the concept.

"The homegrowns are next, the homegrowns. You've got to build about five more places," Trump said to Bukele, an apparent reference to prison space that would be needed in El Salvador to house U.S. citizens.

El Salvador is already holding hundreds of people in a maximum-security prison. They were flown from the U.S. in recent weeks after being detained for allegedly lacking legal status or having gang affiliations.
Does anyone here not see how blatantly and horribly wrong all this is?
In a statement released last week, Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor said the Trump administration's legal arguments around deportation cases suggest the U.S. government already believes it "could deport and incarcerate any person, including U.S. citizens, without legal consequence, so long as it does so before a court can intervene."
That's terrifying!
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
Chap
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Re: Trump and Harvard

Post by Chap »

Gunnar wrote:
Mon Jun 02, 2025 7:08 am
Trump's war on free speech just got personal | Opinion

It is no longer reasonable to deny Trump is indeed trying to wage against freedom of speech.

[...]
President Trump says his administration is actively exploring a proposal to detain U.S. citizens and send them to prisons in El Salvador. Speaking Monday, minutes before a press briefing alongside El Salvador's president, Nayib Bukele, Trump could be heard embracing the concept.

"The homegrowns are next, the homegrowns. You've got to build about five more places," Trump said to Bukele, an apparent reference to prison space that would be needed in El Salvador to house U.S. citizens.

El Salvador is already holding hundreds of people in a maximum-security prison. They were flown from the U.S. in recent weeks after being detained for allegedly lacking legal status or having gang affiliations.
Does anyone here not see how blatantly and horribly wrong all this is?
In a statement released last week, Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor said the Trump administration's legal arguments around deportation cases suggest the U.S. government already believes it "could deport and incarcerate any person, including U.S. citizens, without legal consequence, so long as it does so before a court can intervene."
That's terrifying!
Markk - are you in favour of the US government being able to take a native-born US citizen, resident in the States, and deport them to be imprisoned in another country? If so, what do you think that the Founding Fathers of the US constitution would have thought of that idea?
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
Markk
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Re: Trump and Harvard

Post by Markk »

canpakes wrote:
Mon Jun 02, 2025 4:59 am
Markk wrote:
Mon Jun 02, 2025 12:01 am
If you want to include the other reasons with her remarks to congress, that she could not be clear if call for the genocide of Israel by students did not violate Harvard's conduct rules. I am all ears.
Lol. I was having fun with your typo (anti-semantic), but if you’re ’all ears’, it follows that you didn’t catch (see) that. : )
Markk wrote:
Mon Jun 02, 2025 1:05 am
That is just nonsense. Are you saying these universities with their higher education don't know the difference between clear antisemitism and freedom of speech?
I don’t see that written by me, but that could be a fair question to ask, given that you can’t figure it out any better than you claim they can’t.
Did you read the articles and watch the videos?
Chap
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Re: Trump and Harvard

Post by Chap »

Markk wrote:
Mon Jun 02, 2025 12:40 pm
Did you read the articles and watch the videos?
I might (just) find the time in a busy life to read a text that is not in a posted message, though I would rather you quoted any text material in the message itself.

But videos are about the most inefficient method of passing on information known to man. Summarise content in your message (no, not just "This 30 minute long video shows that Biden belonged to Cosa Nostra"), or be ignored.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
Markk
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Re: Trump and Harvard

Post by Markk »

Chap wrote:
Mon Jun 02, 2025 3:27 pm
Markk wrote:
Mon Jun 02, 2025 12:40 pm
Did you read the articles and watch the videos?
I might (just) find the time in a busy life to read a text that is not in a posted message, though I would rather you quoted any text material in the message itself.

But videos are about the most inefficient method of passing on information known to man. Summarise content in your message (no, not just "This 30 minute long video shows that Biden belonged to Cosa Nostra"), or be ignored.
Nonsense. Both are ways to learn and do research and test what is being conveyed. If you don't want to do so, and are too busy to do so, fine I understand. But in my opinion one should not argue against points over and over that they do not have the time to research, either in video or print.

Personally I learn from both, and both are equally important to learning. This video is a great example....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8wm16kjyvY
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Bret Ripley
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Re: Trump and Harvard

Post by Bret Ripley »

Markk wrote:
Mon Jun 02, 2025 4:35 pm
Chap wrote:
Mon Jun 02, 2025 3:27 pm
I might (just) find the time in a busy life to read a text that is not in a posted message, though I would rather you quoted any text material in the message itself.

But videos are about the most inefficient method of passing on information known to man. Summarise content in your message (no, not just "This 30 minute long video shows that Biden belonged to Cosa Nostra"), or be ignored.
Nonsense. Both are ways to learn and do research and test what is being conveyed. If you don't want to do so, and are too busy to do so, fine I understand. But in my opinion one should not argue against points over and over that they do not have the time to research, either in video or print.

Personally I learn from both, and both are equally important to learning. This video is a great example....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8wm16kjyvY
This serves to demonstrate Chap's point about the inefficiency of using videos to convey a point. This 5 minute video can be summarized as 'masked pro-Palestinian protestors block Jewish UCLA student from attending class.' You can learn from watching a 5 minute video, sure, but you could have learned a whole lot more in that 5 minutes by reading (e.g. https://apnews.com/article/ucla-protest ... a8f0861431).
Gunnar
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Re: Trump and Harvard

Post by Gunnar »

Markk wrote:
Mon Jun 02, 2025 4:35 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8wm16kjyvY
Those Palestinian protesters were wrong to have blocked that Jewish student from entering the campus just because he was wearing a star of David necklace, but was it right of him to deliberately provoke them by wearing that? Nevertheless, they were not wrong to protest the extremism of the Israeli reaction to the October 7 massacre of Israelis by Hamas terrorists.

It is important, I think, to recognize that both sides in the conflicts between Israel and Hamas have been guilty of intolerance, hatred and egregious behavior towards each other. What both sides (and the world in general) need is much more of this: Who are the Palestinian and Jewish-led groups leading the protests against Israel’s action in Gaza?

People working together to peacefully settle the differences between them.
As the Israel-Hamas war rages in Gaza, there’s a bitter battle for public opinion flaring in the United States, with angry rallies on many college campuses and disruptive protests at prominent venues in several major cities.

Among the catalysts are Palestinian and Jewish-led groups that have been active for years in opposing Israeli policies toward the Palestinians and who now demand a cease-fire in Gaza. They have clashed with pro-Israel groups in the past, and are again now.

The groups have roots in a movement known as BDS, which calls for the boycott, divestment and sanction of Israel.

That campaign generated heated rhetoric long before Hamas militants attacked Israel on Oct. 7 and Israel launched its counteroffensive. Advocates wrote op-eds for campus newspapers with appeals to protect Palestinian human rights, often accusing Israel of colonialism and racism.

Now groups involved in those earlier efforts are playing a key role protesting the latest fighting, with actions on campuses and beyond. Protests have led to disruptions on Capitol Hill, at a major train station in Chicago and New York City’s Grand Central Station.

They also helped organize a demonstration Wednesday night outside Democratic National Committee headquarters in Washington which led to clashes between police and protesters.

Who are the groups involved?

Jewish voice for peace

Jewish Voice for Peace, founded in 1996, describes itself as “the largest progressive Jewish anti-Zionist organization in the world.”

“We’re organizing a grassroots, multiracial, cross-class, intergenerational movement of U.S. Jews in solidarity with the Palestinian freedom struggle, guided by a vision of justice, equality, and dignity for all people,” the group says on its website.

It claims more than 300,000 supporters, has 1 million followers on X, formerly known as Twitter, and maintains chapters on many U.S. college campuses. Its Columbia University chapter was suspended Friday for allegedly violating university policies on holding campus events.

After the Oct. 7 Hamas attack on Israel, Chicago-based Rabbi Brant Rosen, co-founder of JVP’s Rabbinical Council, said he grieved for fellow Jews who were killed, yet maintained solidarity with Palestinians.

The Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish advocacy group that frequently speaks out against antisemitism and extremism, assails JVP as “a radical anti-Israel and anti-Zionist activist group that advocates for the boycott of Israel and eradication of Zionism.”
Personally, I am not fully convinced that the Zionism Movement and the mandated establishment of today's Israel was, when all things are considered, really in the best interests of even the Jews themselves.
IfNotNow

IfNotNow was founded during the 2014 Israel-Hamas war, when more than 2,000 Palestinians were killed as Israeli forces launched airstrikes and a ground invasion in response to rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel.

“Young Jews angered by the overwhelmingly hawkish response of American Jewish institutions came together under the banner of IfNotNow,” the group says on its website. Its stated goal: “Organizing our community to end U.S. support for Israel’s apartheid system and demand equality, justice, and a thriving future for all Palestinians and Israelis.”

In the early days of the current Israel-Hamas war, IfNotNow condemned the killings of civilians on both sides, while reiterating its criticisms of Israeli policy.
Certainly, the massacre of Israeli settlers by Hamas terrorists on October 7 was unpardonable, but nevertheless:
“We cannot and will not say today’s actions by Palestinian militants are unprovoked,” the group said on Oct. 7. “The strangling siege on Gaza is a provocation. Settlers terrorizing entire Palestinian villages, soldiers raiding and demolishing Palestinian homes. … These are the provocations of the most extreme right-wing government in Israel’s history.”

Eva Borgwardt, IfNotNow’s political director, said the group organized prayer services in some cities for Jews who wanted to mourn both Jews and Palestinians killed in the conflict.
Last edited by Gunnar on Mon Jun 02, 2025 7:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: Trump and Harvard

Post by Kishkumen »

No one should interfere with a Jewish student seeking to attend class because he was wearing a Star of David. He wasn’t hurting anyone. Wearing a Star of David does not indicate support of Netanyahu.
"I have learned with what evils tyranny infects a state. For it frustrates all the virtues, robs freedom of its lofty mood, and opens a school of fawning and terror, inasmuch as it leaves matters not to the wisdom of the laws, but to the angry whim of those who are in authority.”
Gunnar
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Re: Trump and Harvard

Post by Gunnar »

Kishkumen wrote:
Mon Jun 02, 2025 7:31 pm
No one should interfere with a Jewish student seeking to attend class because he was wearing a Star of David. He wasn’t hurting anyone. Wearing a Star of David does not indicate support of Netanyahu.
I don't disagree with that.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
Markk
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Re: Trump and Harvard

Post by Markk »

Those Palestinian protesters were wrong to have blocked that Jewish student from entering the campus just because he was wearing a star of David necklace, but was it right of him to deliberately provoke them by wearing that?
I suggest you do not call anyone a racist anymore, anyone.

I suggest you apologize for that statement, Kish saw it and shame on him for not calling you out harshly for it.
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