Trump and Harvard

[canpakes]

Those Palestinian protesters were wrong to have blocked that Jewish student from entering the campus just because he was wearing a star of David necklace, but was it right of him to deliberately provoke them by wearing that?

I suggest you do not call anyone a racist anymore, anyone.

I suggest you apologize for that statement, Kish saw it and shame on him for not calling you out harshly for it.

This wasn’t really a racism issue. The problem with that statement is that it has, “… but did you see what she was wearing?” vibes. Each person is responsible for their own actions. There’s not a situation that I can think of happening on any college campus wherein merely wearing the Star should provoke a punch.

Related, the Star of David isn’t on par on any way with a swastika. Although ‘it’s always a good time to punch a Nazi’ could receive the nod of approval from most folks, there’s that problem of the slippery slope that can be rightly invoked even by Nazis.

[Gunnar]

Those Palestinian protesters were wrong to have blocked that Jewish student from entering the campus just because he was wearing a star of David necklace, but was it right of him to deliberately provoke them by wearing that?

I suggest you do not call anyone a racist anymore, anyone.

I suggest you apologize for that statement, Kish saw it and shame on him for not calling you out harshly for it.

What was racist about that? I merely asked if it was right of him to deliberately provoke the confrontation by wearing a star of David, if that was the reason for wearing it. It was certainly questionable, though, whether it was right for the Palestinians to block him from entering the campus merely for that.

[Gunnar]

How many innocent people do you think that MIT killed with their weapon technologies?

I know next to nothing about how much MIT has been involved in developing weapon Technologies. I don't consider it particularly relevant to my post about Megha Vemuri. In general, I think it is tragic that so much brainpower and wealth is used to invent horrible ways to kill people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTwsXyWwoho

I pretty much agree with her remarks. So what?

I have to ask, just why in your opinion is Israel moving into Gaza?

To punish Hamas for October 7 and to find and free the hostages, if possible.

How in your opinion is Hamas treating the non-Hamas Palestinians?

According to the Wikipedia article on them, they claim to respect the rights of all people and all faiths and claim to prefer a state in which all people are equitably treated, including Jews and other faiths. I don't claim to know how trustworthy those claims are.

What do you want from Israel given what they are as a nation dealing with, and those that want them destroyed?

I would like to see a progressive Israeli state that guarantees equality and civil rights under the law for all regardless of religious affiliation.

Gunnar I am not taking a position with these questions, I am curious if you have looked at the reasons behind the current aggressions involving Israel.

Yes, I have as I posted here.

[Gunnar]

This wasn’t really a racism issue. The problem with that statement is that it has, “… but did you see what she was wearing?” vibes. Each person is responsible for their own actions. There’s not a situation that I can think of happening on any college campus wherein merely wearing the Star should provoke a punch.

Related, the Star of David isn’t on par on any way with a swastika. Although ‘it’s always a good time to punch a Nazi’ could receive the nod of approval from most folks, there’s that problem of the slippery slope that can be rightly invoked even by Nazis.

Thanks, canpakes!

[Markk]

Nonsense both are ways to learn and do research and test what is being conveyed. If you don't want to do so, and are too busy to do so, fine I understand. But in my opinion one should not argue against points over and over that they do not have the time to research, either in video or print.

Personally I learn from both, and both are equally important to learning, this video is a great example....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8wm16kjyvY

This serves to demonstrate Chap's point about the inefficiency of using videos to convey a point. This 5 minute video can be summarized as 'masked pro-Palestinian protestors block Jewish UCLA student from attending class.' You can learn from watching a 5 minute video, sure, but you could have learned a whole lot more in that 5 minutes by reading (e.g. https://apnews.com/article/ucla-protest ... a8f0861431).

Methods of learning are subjective....and pitting videos vs reading is just silly. There is a place for both. I can give you countless examples of how they compliment each other. And, in a lot of ways videos can stop lying words, or differing opinions of multiple well meaning witnesses, and biased people. Surveillance cameras prove this everyday in our courts.

In this case it showed a clear case of antisemitism on the UCLA Campus, and complimented stories reflecting that, and negating stories that claimed it was not so.

On a side note:

I have enjoyed for the past 50 years or so, reading books on WW2, Vietnam, and the Civil war....and I can't think of very many compliments to reading them, like the Ken Burns doc's.

And since the "invention" of the podcast, smart phones, and Bluetooth.....we should not neglect audio learning. I get about two to three hours a day in my commute on all kinds of subjects....I learned more about the Book of Abraham with the RFM, JD, 13hr Robert Ritner podcast, than years of reading on and off.

[Markk]

I suggest you do not call anyone a racist anymore, anyone.

I suggest you apologize for that statement, Kish saw it and shame on him for not calling you out harshly for it.

What was racist about that? I merely asked if it was right of him to deliberately provoke the confrontation by wearing a star of David, if that was the reason for wearing it. It was certainly questionable, though, whether it was right for the Palestinians to block him from entering the campus merely for that.

If you do not understand how that is racist, you just won't get it. I will however give it a try. There are a few reasons.

1. Suggesting, questioning, or even hinting that his wearing his Star of David should have been hidden, so not to upset or provoke folks exhibiting their antisemitism.
2. You are defending people for their antisemitism, as if they have a right not to be called out in this case for bigotry against this Jewish student on campus.

Those pro Palestinian students, if they are indeed students, should have been expelled, and if they didn't expel them, by not doing so says a lot about UCLA's commitment to not tolerate antisemitism.

[Markk]

I suggest you do not call anyone a racist anymore, anyone.

I suggest you apologize for that statement, Kish saw it and shame on him for not calling you out harshly for it.

This wasn’t really a racism issue. The problem with that statement is that it has, “… but did you see what she was wearing?” vibes. Each person is responsible for their own actions. There’s not a situation that I can think of happening on any college campus wherein merely wearing the Star should provoke a punch.

Related, the Star of David isn’t on par on any way with a swastika. Although ‘it’s always a good time to punch a Nazi’ could receive the nod of approval from most folks, there’s that problem of the slippery slope that can be rightly invoked even by Nazis.

Noted that you don't think that it was racist.

I have no idea what you mean by vibes.... and who is "she?" Did you watch the video in question here?

So in your mind it is a slippery slope when deciding bigotry between a Jew and a Nazi?

[canpakes]

This wasn’t really a racism issue. The problem with that statement is that it has, “… but did you see what she was wearing?” vibes. Each person is responsible for their own actions. There’s not a situation that I can think of happening on any college campus wherein merely wearing the Star should provoke a punch.

Related, the Star of David isn’t on par on any way with a swastika. Although ‘it’s always a good time to punch a Nazi’ could receive the nod of approval from most folks, there’s that problem of the slippery slope that can be rightly invoked even by Nazis.

Noted that you don't think that it was racist.

Correct. Deciding to attack someone on the premise that their Star of David has ‘provoked’ you (the royal ‘you’, not you specifically, Markk) is more indicative of other issues: immaturity, unable to control one’s emotions, inability to be responsible for one’s own actions, poor reasoning skills, revenge issues, general stupidity, irrational fear of hexagrams, being an antisocial arse, etc.

To flip it to the other end of the spectrum: If I felt the need to punch someone because they were sporting a swastika on their shirt, I wouldn’t be doing so out of racism.

I have no idea what you mean by vibes.... and who is "she?" Did you watch the video in question here?

Have you actually not heard this phrase before, nor realize what it refers to?

So in your mind it is a slippery slope when deciding bigotry between a Jew and a Nazi?

I don’t know where you’re deriving that from. Explain.

But, if you’re wanting to discuss bigotry, is it either bigoted or racist to tell residents of an area that they have to leave because God gave to you the land that they’re living on?

[Gunnar]

1. Suggesting, questioning, or even hinting that his wearing his Star of David should have been hidden, so not to upset or provoke folks exhibiting their antisemitism.
2. You are defending people for their antisemitism, as if they have a right not to be called out in this case for bigotry against this Jewish student on campus.

Those pro Palestinian students, if they are indeed students, should have been expelled, and if they didn't expel them, by not doing so says a lot about UCLA's commitment to not tolerate antisemitism.

Ok, I found your arguments on this persuasive. That student's wearing of a Star of David should not have been regarded as any more offensive than a Muslim woman wearing a hijab whenever she is out in public. And I realized from the start that the real offence was the attempt of the Palestinian protesters to prohibit the Jewish student from entering the campus merely because he was wearing that Star of David.

But let's acknowledge that both Jews and Palestinians have been known to hatefully persecute, demonize and even kill each other in the past and present. Since both groups are semitic, both have, from time to time, been guilty of antisemitic bigotry and violence. Both groups, as well as the world in general, would benefit far more from them getting together and celebrating what they have in common and peacefully respecting the differences between them. There are mixed groups of Jews and Palestinians who are already doing that and becoming great friends to each other. There needs to be a lot more of that going on--especially in the Middle East!

One inspiring story I read about a few years ago happened in Norway. Norway Muslims Form Human Shield Around Jewish Synagogue

Europe’s Jews face rising anti-Semitism in some countries, but multiculturalism is far from dead. Today, more than 1,000 Muslims formed a human shield around Oslo’s synagogue, offering protection and solidarity with Jews following a violent attack in Copenhagen last weekend.

Chanting “No to anti-Semitism, no to Islamophobia,” Norway’s Muslims and others formed what they called a ring of peace during the event organized on Facebook.

“Humanity is one, and we are here to demonstrate that,” Zeeshan Abdullah, one of the organizers told the crowd of Muslim immigrants and ethnic Norwegians who filled the street around Oslo’s only synagogue.

[Jersey Girl]

But let's acknowledge that both Jews and Palestinians have been known to hatefully persecute, demonize and even kill each other in the past and present. Since both groups are semitic, both have, from time to time, been guilty of antisemitic bigotry and violence. Both groups, as well as the world in general, would benefit far more from them getting together and celebrating what they have in common and peacefully respecting the differences between them. There are mixed groups of Jews and Palestinians who are already doing that and becoming great friends to each other. There needs to be a lot more of that going on--especially in the Middle East!

AMEN!!