Boelter: Fruits of Jesus Camp

[Kishkumen]

As you all are undoubtedly aware, Vance Boelter, a MAGA Christian terrorist, killed two people and wounded two more—two of the victims were Democratic politicians—in what was a planned terrorist killing spree to take out 70 Democratic politicians. The media is completely botching the reporting of this predictable tragedy, and right-wing media is deliberately lying about the perpetrator by calling him a lefist. No, Vance Boelter, still at large, is a Trump voter, a registered MAGA party member, and a radical Christian fundamentalist, who opposed a woman’s right to choose and LGBTQ rights.

As I reflected on what is happening in MAGA terrorism, which, by the way, is winked at and encouraged by MAGA party leaders, I was moved to think of a film I saw during my faith transition back in the aughts: Jesus Camp.

Jesus Camp was a splash of cold water in the face because it revealed a toxic mix of hyper patriotism mixed with Christian fundamentalism that was thriving and being pushed on young children. As the movie depicts, Christian radicals were actually jealous of the 9/11 terrorists and wanted to raise up a comparable Christian movement. So, homeschoolers and Bible camp folk started to indoctrinate their kids in this toxic mix of jingoism and culty fundamentalist Christianity.

See Jesus Camp. Do yourself a favor. You will see how that movement has led to the lunacy and violence we are currently witnessing unfold.

The camp came out of the New Apostolic Reformation, a group that has the goal of a Christian extremist takeover of the government. Online sources are claiming that Boelter was an NAR Christian. I have not confirmed that, but it would not surprise me.

Here is Wikipedia’s summary of Jesus Camp:

Jesus Camp follows the Kids on Fire School of Ministry, a charismatic Christian summer camp located just outside Devils Lake, North Dakota and run by Becky Fischer and her ministry, Kids in Ministry International. While Fischer's summer camp is sometimes identified as Pentecostal, Fischer is most closely associated with the neo-charismatic movement known as the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR).[6] The film focuses on three of the children who attended the camp in the summer of 2005—Levi, Rachael, and Tory (Victoria). The film cuts between footage of the camp and a children's prayer conference held just before the camp at Christ Triumphant Church, a large charismatic church in Lee's Summit, Missouri, a suburb of Kansas City.

All three children are already very devout Christians. Levi has preached several sermons at his father's church, Rock of Ages Church in St. Robert, Missouri. He is homeschooled, his mother explaining that God did not give her a child just so he could be raised by someone else eight hours a day. He learns science from books and videos that attempt to reconcile young-earth creationism with scientific principles.[7] Levi preaches a sermon at the camp in which he declares that his generation is key to bringing Jesus back. Rachael, who also attends Levi's church (her father was assistant pastor at the time), is seen praying over a bowling ball during a game early in the film, and evangelizes to strangers, telling them that Jesus loves them. She does not think highly of non-charismatic churches (or "dead churches" as she calls them), feeling they are not "churches that God likes to go to." Tory is a member of the Children's Praise Dance Team at Christ Triumphant Church. She is observed dancing to Christian rock music, and says she has to check herself to make sure she is not "dancing for the flesh."

At the camp, Fischer stresses the need for children to purify themselves in order to be part of the "army of God." She strongly believes that children need to be in the forefront of turning America toward conservative Christian values. She also feels that Christians need to focus on training kids since "the enemy" (radical Islam) is focused on training theirs. She compares the preparation she is giving children with the training of terrorists in the Middle East. "I want to see young people who are as committed to the cause of Jesus Christ as the young people are to the cause of Islam," she tells the camera. "I want to see them radically laying down their lives for the gospel, as they are over in Pakistan and Israel and Palestine."[8]

In one scene shot at Christ Triumphant Church, a woman brings a life-sized cutout of George W. Bush to the front of the church and has the children stretch their hands toward him in prayer for him. In another scene, Fischer rails against Harry Potter, and says that it is a gateway to joining the occult, in an attempt to scare the children into avoiding it. She argues that if Harry Potter was a real warlock, and lived during the Old Testament era, that the Jews would have stoned him to death. In another scene, Lou Engle preaches a message urging children to join the fight to end abortion in America. Children are shown a series of plastic models of developing fetuses, and have their mouths covered with red tape with "Life" written across it. Engle is a founder of the Justice House of Prayer and a leader of Harvest International Ministries, a network of charismatic-oriented ministries with which both the church and Fischer's ministry are affiliated.[citation needed] He prays for Bush to have the strength to appoint "righteous judges" who will overturn Roe v. Wade. By the end of the sermon, the children are chanting, "Righteous judges! Righteous judges!"

There is also a scene at New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado where Ted Haggard preaches a sermon against homosexuality. Before the service, Levi mentioned how he admired Ted Haggard and was looking forward to meeting him. After the sermon, Levi informs Haggard that he has already preached sermons and wants to be a preacher when he grows up. Haggard advises him: "I say, use your cute kid thing until you're thirty, and by then you'll have good content." Afterward, Levi, Rachael, Tory, their families and several other children take part in a Justice House of Prayer rally held by Engle in front of the U.S. Supreme Court.

Throughout the movie, there are cut scenes to a debate between Fischer and Mike Papantonio, an attorney and a radio talk-show host for Air America Radio's Ring of Fire. Papantonio questions Fischer's motives for focusing her ministry efforts on children. Fischer explains that she does not believe that people are able to choose their belief system once they pass childhood, and that it is important that they be "indoctrinated" in evangelical Christian values from a young age. Fischer also explains that democracy is flawed and designed to destroy itself "because we have to give everyone equal freedom".

[Markk]

This guy had a PHD, he clearly murdered because his higher education led him down the road to do what he did, how did you miss that?

Kish, what I just wrote makes about as much sense as you blaming this guys mental illness on anything other than what it is. He was a nut case. Sane people don't do such a thing. Where are your tirades when a person kills or tries to kill when they have liberal leanings, affiliation, or causes?

Where were you a month or so ago with the Palm Springs bombing, or the nut that gunned down two Messianic Jews on the street a few months ago? Or the nut that shot the health care guy in cold blood? Liberals are responsible for more violence that conservatives, my guess is it is not even close.

Your manic rants of conservative mentally ill people, while giving a pass on liberal mentally ill people is well, telling of something deep, I'll leave it at that.

[Chap]

This guy had a PHD, he clearly murdered because his higher education led him down the road to do what he did, how did you miss that?

Kish, what I just wrote makes about as much sense as you blaming this guys mental illness on anything other than what it is. He was a nut case. Sane people don't do such a thing. Where are your tirades when a person kills or try's to kill when they have liberal leanings, affiliation, or causes?

You miss the point, which is not so much about the mental state of people who murder others, but what extra factors lead mentally ill people to kill. After all, the world contains many, many completely non-lethal mentally ill people. (OK, in the USA mental illness is much more likely to be lethal to others than in my country, simply because mentally ill people in the USA can very easily obtain the tools to kill lots of people rapidly. But that's not the point either.)

Kish's point is that there are certain kinds of Christian indoctrination that incline people to think that it would be a good thing for what they think of as their deity's enemies to be hurried out of this world. And since it is the case that "Vance Boelter, still at large, is a Trump voter, a registered MAGA party member, and a radical Christian fundamentalist, who opposed a woman’s right to choose and LGBTQ rights", it seems perfectly reasonable to point this out.

Provisional conclusion: sadly, the fact that someone identifies as a Christian is no guarantee that their religion may not move people to kill others. And Boelter seems to be a case in point. That point can be quite legitimately made in the context of current news without any necessity for pointing to other ideologies that may have similar results.

[Gadianton]

Ha, I'm sure his Phd from a private Catholic School drove him mad with Marxist ideas.

and a radical Christian fundamentalist, who opposed a woman’s right to choose and LGBTQ rights.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/200 ... ealth-care

Cardinal Stritch and several other colleges in the joint plan are Roman Catholic institutions -- and part of the savings bonus was contingent on all colleges offering the same services, so none of the colleges offer birth control or abortion coverage.

His institution of higher learning was in line with his conservative values, even if it wasn't some crazy evangelical school that promoted insurrection and taught QAnon.

My guess (let's see what comes out and I admit this is speculation) is that this warrior for Jesus wasn't an outright MAGA loon who rode a unicycle and waved a US flag defaced with Trump's image, but is more in line with a William F. Buckley Jr.'s core conservative values kind of politics. Proving Dan wrong, that MAGA at its worst is a continuation of Dan's libertarian politics rather than a break from it.

[Kishkumen]

This guy had a PHD, he clearly murdered because his higher education led him down the road to do what he did, how did you miss that?

Kish, what I just wrote makes about as much sense as you blaming this guys mental illness on anything other than what it is. He was a nut case. Sane people don't do such a thing. Where are your tirades when a person kills or tries to kill when they have liberal leanings, affiliation, or causes?

Where were you a month or so ago with the Palm Springs bombing, or the nut that gunned down two Messianic Jews on the street a few months ago? Or the nut that shot the health care guy in cold blood? Liberals are responsible for more violence that conservatives, my guess is it is not even close.

Your manic rants of conservative mentally ill people, while giving a pass on liberal mentally ill people is well, telling of something deep, I'll leave it at that.

LOL! Wow. Can’t think your way out of a paper bag, let alone the toxic sludge of MAGA stupid.

[huckelberry]

This guy had a PHD, he clearly murdered because his higher education led him down the road to do what he did, how did you miss that?

Kish, what I just wrote makes about as much sense as you blaming this guys mental illness on anything other than what it is. He was a nut case. Sane people don't do such a thing. Where are your tirades when a person kills or tries to kill when they have liberal leanings, affiliation, or causes?

Where were you a month or so ago with the Palm Springs bombing, or the nut that gunned down two Messianic Jews on the street a few months ago? Or the nut that shot the health care guy in cold blood? Liberals are responsible for more violence that conservatives, my guess is it is not even close.

Your manic rants of conservative mentally ill people, while giving a pass on liberal mentally ill people is well, telling of something deep, I'll leave it at that.

Markk, I can see a point that public violence is mentally unbalanced so there should be caution about assigning political views as a cause. There is a degree to which the focus of a violent act reflects a political view. I do not see much left wing or right wing focus in the violent episodes you mention. The Palm Springs bomber clearly was acting out of person beliefs but they do not fit either left or right politics. A pro-Palestinian fanatic could be right or left or neither wing.

Well my comment fits or agrees with at least a part of your observation though not all of it.

[Jersey Girl]

There is also a scene at New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado where Ted Haggard preaches a sermon against homosexuality. Before the service, Levi mentioned how he admired Ted Haggard and was looking forward to meeting him. After the sermon, Levi informs Haggard that he has already preached sermons and wants to be a preacher when he grows up. Haggard advises him: "I say, use your cute kid thing until you're thirty, and by then you'll have good content." Afterward, Levi, Rachael, Tory, their families and several other children take part in a Justice House of Prayer rally held by Engle in front of the U.S. Supreme Court.

Haggard had to leave New Life Church which he himself founded. More about that at the link below. He's since founded a new ministry.

Haggard made national headlines in November 2006 when a male prostitute and masseur, Mike Jones, alleged that Haggard, who had spoken against the legalization of same-sex marriage, had paid him for sex for three years and had bought and used crystal methamphetamine. Haggard resigned his post at New Life Church and his other leadership roles shortly after the allegations became public. Later, Haggard admitted to drug use, some sexual activity with Jones, and an inappropriate relationship with a young man who attended New Life Church

Sex and drug scandal
In November 2006, a male prostitute and masseur, Mike Jones, publicly alleged that Haggard had paid him for sex over a three-year period and had bought and used crystal methamphetamine.[14] Jones said he had only recently learned of Haggard's true identity, and explained his reasons for coming forward by saying, "It made me angry that here's someone preaching against gay marriage and going behind the scenes having gay sex."
Jones made the allegations public in response to Haggard's political support for Colorado Amendment 43, on the November 7, 2006, Colorado ballot, which would ban same-sex marriage in that state. Jones told ABC News, "I had to expose the hypocrisy. He is in the position of influence of millions of followers, and he's preaching against gay marriage. But behind everybody's back [he's] doing what he's preached against."[15] Jones hoped that his statements would sway voters.[16]

Haggard's immediate response was denial. He told a Denver television station, "I did not have a homosexual relationship with a man in Denver ... I am steady with my wife. I'm faithful to my wife." Haggard also said, "I have never done drugs – ever. Not even in high school. I didn't smoke pot. I didn't do anything like that. I'm not a drug man. We're not a drinking family. I don't smoke cigarettes. I don't socially drink. We don't socially drink. We don't have wine in our house. We don't do that kind of thing."

Many evangelical leaders initially showed support for Haggard and were critical of media reports, including James Dobson, who, in a statement of support for Haggard, said "It is unconscionable that the legitimate news media would report a rumor like this based on nothing but one man's accusation. ... Ted Haggard is a friend of mine, and it appears someone is trying to damage his reputation as a way of influencing the outcome of Tuesday's election – especially the vote on Colorado's marriage-protection amendment, which Ted strongly supports."[17][18]

Cornered by his voicemail to Mike Jones requesting methamphetamine, Haggard told the press, "I bought it [methamphetamine] for myself, but never used it. I was tempted but I never used it." Haggard said that he had bought the methamphetamine but then thrown it away,[19] and added that he had never met his accuser. Jones volunteered to take a polygraph test on a KHOW radio show hosted by Peter Boyles, where Jones first made the allegations. However, Jones's responses during the section of the polygraph test about whether he had engaged in sex with Haggard indicated deception. The test administrator, John Kresnik, discounted the test results because of Jones's stress, and lack of eating or sleeping. Regardless, Haggard responded by saying, "We're so grateful that he failed a polygraph test this morning, my accuser did." Jones was not asked questions about drug use. Jones expressed doubt that he would retake the test, saying "I've made my point. He's the one who has discredited himself. He should admit it and move on."[20]

Because of the scandal, Haggard went on administrative leave from New Life, saying, "I am voluntarily stepping aside from leadership so that the overseer process can be allowed to proceed with integrity. I hope to be able to discuss this matter in more detail at a later date. In the interim, I will seek both spiritual advice and guidance."[21]

On November 2, 2006, senior church officials told Colorado Springs television station KKTV that Haggard had admitted some of the claims made by Jones.[22] In an e-mail to New Life Church parishioners sent on the evening of November 2, Acting Senior Pastor Ross Parsley wrote, "It is important for you to know that he [Haggard] confessed to the overseers that some of the accusations against him are true."[23] Haggard admitted that he had bought methamphetamine and received a massage from Jones, and denied using the drugs and having sex with Jones.[24]

As it became apparent that at least some of the claims were true, some evangelical leaders, such as Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, sought to distance themselves from Haggard, and to downplay his influence on religious conservatives, his connections to the Bush administration, and the importance of the NAE.[25][26]

On November 4, 2006, the Overseer Board of New Life Church released a statement that Haggard had been fired as senior pastor:

"Our investigation and Pastor Haggard's public statements have proven without a doubt that he has committed sexually immoral conduct." Ross Parsley, the Associate Senior Pastor, was then named Haggard's successor. Haggard then entered counseling conducted by a team, which included Jack Hayford and Tommy Barnett, who stated their intention to "perform a thorough analysis of Haggard's mental, spiritual, emotional, and physical life", including the use of polygraph tests. The team was to include James Dobson, who later stepped aside, citing time constraints. H.B. London – Focus on the Family's vice president of church and clergy – took Dobson's place on the team.[27] After the scandal was publicized, Haggard entered three weeks of intensive counseling, overseen by four ministers. In February 2007, one of those ministers, Tim Ralph, said that Haggard was "completely heterosexual."[28]

On November 3, 2006, Haggard's resignation from his leadership role at the National Association of Evangelicals was accepted.[29]

Eventually, Haggard admitted having used drugs[4] and having been sexually fondled by Jones.[30]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Haggard

[Kishkumen]

You miss the point, which is not so much about the mental state of people who murder others, but what extra factors lead mentally ill people to kill. After all, the world contains many, many completely non-lethal mentally ill people. (OK, in the USA mental illness is much more likely to be lethal to others than in my country, simply because mentally ill people in the USA can very easily obtain the tools to kill lots of people rapidly. But that's not the point either.)

Kish's point is that there are certain kinds of Christian indoctrination that incline people to think that it would be a good thing for what they think of as their deity's enemies to be hurried out of this world. And since it is the case that "Vance Boelter, still at large, is a Trump voter, a registered MAGA party member, and a radical Christian fundamentalist, who opposed a woman’s right to choose and LGBTQ rights", it seems perfectly reasonable to point this out.

Provisional conclusion: sadly, the fact that someone identifies as a Christian is no guarantee that their religion may not move people to kill others. And Boelter seems to be a case in point. That point can be quite legitimately made in the context of current news without any necessity for pointing to other ideologies that may have similar results.

Mentally ill is in this case a convenient label to dodge the reality of radical fundamentalist Christian terrorism. Folks in the NAR envied Islamic terrorists. They also wanted to remake the USA in their own image. The dots connect pretty easily. It was once the case that this type of terrorist limited their targets to abortion clinics and the doctors who performed abortions. Now they are going after lawmakers.

If people were not too blind to accept that, yes, fundamentalist Christians can engage in terrorism, too, then we would be calling these things as they are. Before you know it, we will have our own Iranian-style clerical government in the USA. Radicals have become a force on the Supreme Court. They are running amok in the Trump administration. There are self-avowed Christian Nationalists in Congress. We are very close to seeing a radical Christian coup that sweeps away all opposition and runs the country.

The terrorists are one part of that movement. They seek to intimidate or eliminate those whose voices oppose their agenda.

[Markk]

This guy had a PHD, he clearly murdered because his higher education led him down the road to do what he did, how did you miss that?

Kish, what I just wrote makes about as much sense as you blaming this guys mental illness on anything other than what it is. He was a nut case. Sane people don't do such a thing. Where are your tirades when a person kills or tries to kill when they have liberal leanings, affiliation, or causes?

Where were you a month or so ago with the Palm Springs bombing, or the nut that gunned down two Messianic Jews on the street a few months ago? Or the nut that shot the health care guy in cold blood? Liberals are responsible for more violence that conservatives, my guess is it is not even close.

Your manic rants of conservative mentally ill people, while giving a pass on liberal mentally ill people is well, telling of something deep, I'll leave it at that.

Markk, I can see a point that public violence is mentally unbalanced so there should be caution about assigning political views as a cause. There is a degree to which the focus of a violent act reflects a political view. I do not see much left wing or right wing focus in the violent episodes you mention. The Palm Springs bomber clearly was acting out of person beliefs but they do not fit either left or right politics. A pro-Palestinian fanatic could be right or left or neither wing.

Well my comment fits or agrees with at least a part of your observation though not all of it.

Whose fault is it for people like this, Jersey Girl and Kish's I suppose in that they support these protests, or is it the individual's fault?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Unw--2N95Ko

MY comment was about his MO and SOP.

[Jersey Girl]

Markk, I can see a point that public violence is mentally unbalanced so there should be caution about assigning political views as a cause. There is a degree to which the focus of a violent act reflects a political view. I do not see much left wing or right wing focus in the violent episodes you mention. The Palm Springs bomber clearly was acting out of person beliefs but they do not fit either left or right politics. A pro-Palestinian fanatic could be right or left or neither wing.

Well my comment fits or agrees with at least a part of your observation though not all of it.

Whose fault is it for people like this, Jersey Girl and Kish's I suppose in that they support these protests, or is it the individual's fault?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Unw--2N95Ko

MY comment was about his MO and SOP.

So far as I can tell that's the Protestor's fault.

Wouldn't mind seeing a longer video of that. Why? Example: The throw down of Padilla. I haven't seen any video that showed what happened in that incident start to finish. There might not be one but that's the kind of thing I look for to put any incident in context and not rely on political leanings/inflamed passions of those involved or my own. Politics are a factor for sure, what I'm looking for is the point at which the law was broken by whomever violated it.