Boelter: Fruits of Jesus Camp

[honorentheos]

Liberals are responsible for more violence that conservatives, my guess is it is not even close.

Not even close, sure. But you guessed wrong.

[Chap]

Trump used his pardon power to shield violent extremists who beat cops during J6 from the consequences of their violent criminal activities.

Amusingly, as has been noted by several posters, quite a few of the Presidentially Pardoned are being investigated for further crimes unrelated to J6, ranging from (If I recall correctly) armed assault to child molestation.

[Kishkumen]

Amusingly, as has been noted by several posters, quite a few of the Presidentially Pardoned are being investigated for further crimes unrelated to J6, ranging from (If I recall correctly) armed assault to child molestation.

Recklessness, thoughtlessness, and general irresponsibility are some of Trump's defining characteristics. Trump gave no thought to the identity and behavior of the J6 people he pardoned. The results speak for themselves. More harm done to innocent Americans.

[ceeboo]

As you all are undoubtedly aware, Vance Boelter, a MAGA Christian terrorist, killed two people and wounded two more—two of the victims were Democratic politicians—in what was a planned terrorist killing spree to take out 70 Democratic politicians.

You confidently state this killing spree to take out 70 Democratic politicians. Have you seen this list? If so, can you provide it?

From the reports that I have read/seen about this horrific act of evil, my understanding is that this list has not been made public. Have you seen this list that supports your suggestion about "a planned terrorist killing spree to take out 70 Democratic politicians"? I have seen/read vague references about a few names of Democratic politicians, about abortion, about Hortman's recent vote against benefits for illegal immigrants, about "no kings" signs in his car, about being an Evangelical, about etc............. But I have not seen/read anything about what you claim.

The media is completely botching the reporting of this predictable tragedy, and right-wing media is deliberately lying about the perpetrator by calling him a lefist. No, Vance Boelter, still at large, is a Trump voter, a registered MAGA party member, and a radical Christian fundamentalist, who opposed a woman’s right to choose and LGBTQ rights.

While you may be right, you are far too certain, in my opinion.

Either way, he is a murderer who has intentionally ended two human lives and has destroyed the lives of many more who loved those who were tragically assassinated in cold blood.

[Kishkumen]

You confidently state this killing spree to take out 70 Democratic politicians. Have you seen this list? If so, can you provide it?

From the reports that I have read/seen about this horrific act of evil, my understanding is that this list has not been made public. Have you seen this list that supports your suggestion about "a planned terrorist killing spree to take out 70 Democratic politicians"? I have seen/read vague references about a few names of Democratic politicians, about abortion, about Hortman's recent vote against benefits for illegal immigrants, about "no kings" signs in his car, about being an Evangelical, about etc............. But I have not seen/read anything about what you claim.

True. I don’t think everyone on the list was a politician. The targets code Democratic as one would expect a MAGA extremist to go after.

While you may be right, you are far too certain, in my opinion.

Either way, he is a murderer who has intentionally ended two human lives and has destroyed the lives of many more who loved those who were tragically assassinated in cold blood.

I am not surprised. The rabidly anti-LGBTQ sermon he delivered in Africa was pretty telling. His best friend’s statement about how he voted for Trump and would have hated being called a Democrat are helpful. The latter came in response to right-wing media falsely identifying Boelter as a Democrat. The despicable Mike Lee called him a Marxist. Oh, and his friend said Boelter was a fan of InfoWars.

Yikes.

If the deaths weren’t considered a political issue by so many on the right, they would not have been rushing to lie about Vance being a “leftist” or a “Marxist.” Anyone can readily detect the pattern in the targets. The same kind of people railed against in the right-wing media or from radical fundamentalist Christian pulpits were his targets.

It’s not exactly mysterious. What evidence suggests another option, in your view?

[Gadianton]

From People:

Carlson also shed some light on Boelter's political beliefs and claimed that his friend had voted for President Donald Trump in the 2024 election, had a "fascination with military equipment" and "really hated" abortion, per an interview with Fox 9 Minneapolis-St. Paul. Carlson also claimed that Boelter had written a book about his religious beliefs.

In addition, Carlson alleged that Boelter gave him a four-month advance in his rent payments ahead of his alleged shootings.

Boelter also shared videos online as a speaker for Minnesota Africans United, a nonprofit serving African immigrant communities.

So yeah, I'm having a hard time placing him as strict MAGA. He doesn't hate immigrants, has a sense of duty to his friends (and even paid for a car and bike during his getaway rather than stiffing like Trump would), married with 5 kids, he is educated (Ed doctorate), his book is on religion (not politics, Q, or conspiracy theories I'm speculating), although he did have an ldsfaq's-like fascination with law enforcement, which is definitely a MAGA impulse and he liked Alex Jones. Overall, I'm getting a Justice Barrett vibe more than your typical capitol rioter. While her fanaticism sent her to the Supreme Court to make a difference, his life accomplishments don't pace his intelligence and social awareness. And that is definitely a factor in feeling powerless.

The abortion thing is really standing out for me. It's common for right-wingers to equate abortion to murder. I recall Ben Shapiro making such a flippant statement and I recall how unconvincing it was. I've said before that right-wing men don't really care about abortion no matter how much they insist on it. It's completely antithetical to the MAGA womanizer/incel mentality. But this guy --- five kids? I'm not getting the vibe he'd feel comfortable in a conversation with my right-wing Christian friend who can't speak about women at all without objectifying them throughout. Boelter may sincerely be pro-life.

Now think about this. What would you do if one day, one of the two parties (doesn't matter which) voted to make school shootings legal? If abortion really is murder, then a woman who has an abortion is no different than someone walking into a school with a gun. Certainly, in such a situation where politicians make school shootings legal while also providing the guns for those without the means, I can say I would feel like maybe this is it for me. Maybe I can't go on in life, as it's just not possible to tolerate such a thing, and maybe I'd do the same as Boelter. And so, if you can imagine how you might feel if school shootings were made legal, then you can understand how a (legitimately) pro-life person feels about abortion. It's no wonder that such a person who is powerless to stop it by any other means might get directly to the point.

This is speculation. As more information comes out, it may be that he really was radicalized by Alex Jones, and his book and manifesto may emphasize more traditionally MAGA conspiratorial talking points. If that is the case, then it will prove me wrong. However, if the information that comes out emphasizes his loathing of abortion in particular, and if it turns out he was a good husband and a father, then it may prove me right, that he's more of a traditional conservative, but one of the .01% who actually believes what he preaches.

[ceeboo]

It’s not exactly mysterious.

It's not? Until much more information comes out (which might not ever happen) it's quite mysterious.

What evidence suggests another option, in your view?

In my view, it's quite a bizarre mixed bag, Some of the information that is being reported suggests much of what you are repeating (What his friend said, his seemingly strong stance against abortion, his "devout" evangelicalism, etc) - then we have reports that he was first appointed by a Republican Governor and later promoted to a higher position by a Democratic Governor (Walz) - Then we have the "no kings" signs in his car - then we have this weird connection (coincidence?) about Hortman's recent vote (crossing political lines) to strip illegals from state benefits (This one seems to be potentially very relevant)

People can quickly arrive at a fixed place of certain knowledge and claim that there is no mystery here (no worries) - I am not one of those people - Especially so given how the media has lied to all of us - continues to lie to all of is - and expends enormous efforts to push certain narratives.

[Marcus]

...People can quickly arrive at a fixed place of certain knowledge and claim that there is no mystery here (no worries) - I am not one of those people...

Really.

[Gunnar]

Liberals are responsible for more violence that conservatives, my guess is it is not even close.

Not even close, sure. But you guessed wrong.

I agree with you and Markk that it is not even close, but, as you said, he guessed wrong. If he thinks that it is liberals who are the more responsible for violence, rather than those who self-identify as conservatives, he is not nearly as well-informed as he thinks he is.

[Kishkumen]

It's not? Until much more information comes out (which might not ever happen) it's quite mysterious.

Everything you bring up weighs very little in the analysis. His best friend explained his involvement in Walz’s non-partisan effort as not reflecting his politics but desire to serve the community. The many hastily drawn up No Kings signs are a ploy of some kind. If he had one well made No Kings sign, that would raise a question.

Are there questions? Sure. Is the situation mysterious? No.