WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

[Gadianton]

The usefulness of Cooper's narrative is extraordinary. I told Markk back in February that mass deportations just aren't possible, look at what happened with the Third Reich. Anyone who has read the wiki on Nazi Germany's attempt at mass deportation, and also knows something about our own immigration laws, knows it just isn't possible. The harder the push, the more predictable the civil and human rights violations.

As the Fourth Reich got going with their mandate from Jesus Christ and the ECFs to mass deport, I watched a Fox News segment where the "comedian" / commentators bragged about the administration's "hold my beer" logic. The aggressive moves that everyone else is afraid to try. Somebody has an idea, "let's try it". Just do it, ask "legal" later. Ha ha ha. And so by moving fast and reckless, the Fourth Reich is mimicking the Third Reich, who didn't really have a plan and just started moving "bodies" as ICE calls them.

And so by Markk's logic via Cooper, all Trump needs to do is move as fast and reckless as possible, and as the tragedies mount, they can just say it was bad planning; not intentional. As one tiny possibility out of many (and ignoring many things already happening that are despicable): As the administration gets going with deportations to El Salvador, slots fill up, and in the chaotic multipronged approach to governing, DOGE either intentionally or by accident cuts off the paychecks to El Salvador. Bukele complains and is assured payment will be restored. Some on the US side suggest we stretch it out a little, see if we can get a better deal. Don't want to rip off the taxpayers. Bukele gets fed up, there's no money for food. Well, faced with starving, the humane thing to do is just kill them.

Anyone who accepts Cooper's and Markk's logic is ready to accept any and all atrocities including up to genocide and brush it off as unintentional.

[Kishkumen]

Anyone who accepts Cooper's and Markk's logic is ready to accept any and all atrocities including up to genocide and brush it off as unintentional.

Genocide. Oopsy-daisy!

[huckelberry]

My point about Cooper and still is that his claim, which was disputed by some, is that the Germans were no prepared for the Millions of political prisoners, POW's, and Jew's.....which is just a historical fact.

You are just making stuff up and trying to put words in my mouth, I never said in any context.

Markk, this historical fact has not been rejected. It is true but is an obvious and trivial truth.

The question people keep trying to pursue is ,so what?

Gadianton presented a possible meaning but I don't know if Cooper would be happy with it. People hear the problem joined with proposing Churchill as the villain as a holocaust denial pattern. Cooper avoids committing, probably not really believing that in any complete sense.

I do not quite see Cooper making any point. Perhaps combining ambiguity while poking the bear attracts a lot of attention which means money. It's entertainement.

[huckelberry]

Markk, I remember you stating people who are not boomers have not learned as much ww2 details. Perhaps, I am one of kids conceived about three years after dad returned from the war in Europe. Learning of the war was natural. There have been several cycles of documentaries with lots of detail. I am not focused upon the subject but have read a few good books. I am not the only person here with such familiarity.we are puzzled by thinking Coopers presentation informative because of lifelong familiarity.

[huckelberry]

Markk, I remember you stating people who are not boomers have not learned as much ww2 details. Perhaps, I am one of kids conceived about three years after dad returned from the war in Europe. Learning of the war was natural. There have been several cycles of documentaries with lots of detail. I am not focused upon the subject but have read a few good books. I am not the only person here with such familiarity.we are puzzled by thinking Coopers presentation informative because of lifelong familiarity.

[Markk]

Two different topics, the Temporary Measure of putting the Jews in the Ghetto, which I was discussing as a temporary solution to detain the Jews until the figured out how to deal with...."the Jewish problem."

But that wasn’t what Morley was talking about. It is indeed a slightly different topic and direction, which is why I questioned why you were bringing in talk of a ‘temporary solution’ of logistics in response to Cooper’s apparent bemoaning of Sad Nazis who were forced to kill Jews because they had no place to put them, or were unable to keep them from going hungry after rounding them up or corralling them into ghettos or camps.

viewtopic.php?p=2897838#p2897838

You are just conflating two entirely different subjects. You came in late to the conversation and are now, rather unsuccessfully, trying to tell me, what I was discussing and why, and you just can't admit it.

You have that backwards. : D You’re conflating related topics. And I’m asking you why you went that direction, and if this is your way of demonstrating your belief in the Sad Nazi storyline.

My point about Cooper and still is that his claim, which was disputed by some, is that the Germans were no prepared for the Millions of political prisoners, POW's, and Jew's.....which is just a historical fact.

That’s nice, but that’s not discussing the Sad Nazi claim. That’s your conflation of logistics with Morley’s focus. No one is disputing that moving around over 6 million people was a logistical challenge.

You are just making stuff up and trying to put words in my mouth, I never said in any context.

I’m not putting words in your mouth when I’m linking to your posts and asking you if you believe the Sad Nazi storyline.

You’ve spent a whole lot of time dodging two questions, neither of which even included the word, ‘temporary’.

1. Markk, can you explain why the Nazis “kept the Jews in ghettos and worked and starved them to death for the most part, when they were not beating and shooting them”… but then felt stressed when they rounded them up and couldn’t starve them fast enough while stuffed into concentration camps?

2. Do you believe Cooper’s claim?

Lol...Whatever, you stuck your foot in your mouth once again and are just making stuff up now, telling people that were in a conversation, what they were talking about. The context of temporary solution was with the Ghetto, as the link I provided backs up; it was what I was talking about. You missed it, you were late coming in and are just to proud to say you screwed up, which is a integrity issue I suppose.

Just like with the SB54 California Immigration act. It was created and signed to support sanctuary cities. It was discussed and defended as such on the news, radio, and papers....debated as such by conservative and liberal laws enforcement agencies is California, but because you didn't do your homework and look and see if there were actually laws on the books for such a thing, you very lamely say there is no such law, it means something else, and does not do what it was intended to do, protect illegal immigrants, including those that commit horrific crimes.

[Markk]

Markk, I remember you stating people who are not boomers have not learned as much ww2 details. Perhaps, I am one of kids conceived about three years after dad returned from the war in Europe. Learning of the war was natural. There have been several cycles of documentaries with lots of detail. I am not focused upon the subject but have read a few good books. I am not the only person here with such familiarity.we are puzzled by thinking Coopers presentation informative because of lifelong familiarity.

Remember the old "World at War" docs? I remember sitting with my three brothers watching those. Or the John Wayne movies that had real video edited in and my dad telling me those were real, especially the Kamikazes. I remember well looking at all the WW2 toys in the Montgomery Wards, and Sears Wish Books. Lol I remember my little brother got a Japanese Pill Box one year with a plastic machine gun. It was just the way it was. Remember "There's a German in the grass, with a bullet up his a$$, get it out, get it out, like a little girl scout?"

Everybody says stupid stuff, and what Cooper said about Churchill wasn't very wise, and to his credit he walked it back. But the media took that and vilified him, and thus everything he said is taken out of context, it's ashamed....especially in that 95% of those doing so probably didn't even listen to the podcast.

It is not so much as what he said that I find positive but how he presents it. Give the guy a chance, let the politics go, and I think you will understand my point.

I finished listening to Coopers 5 plus hour podcast and the West Virginia Miners war, and it was simply fascinating. His dedication to the subject is simply awesome. I was done in the fashion of a Ken Burns documentary in audio, top notch. I learned so much from it and about some true American hero's, Icons, and villains. It was a full out war, with machineguns, plans dropping bombs, murders, gun fights, etc. But mostly, for me, Cooper brought out how these miners were treated and swindled by the Mine owners.....again I can recommend it enough, and I know you would appreciate it.
https://content.blubrry.com/martyrmade_ ... nload=true

[Markk]

Markk wrote: My point about Cooper and still is that his claim, which was disputed by some, is that the Germans were no prepared for the Millions of political prisoners, POW's, and Jew's.....which is just a historical fact.

Huck Replied: Markk, this historical fact has not been rejected. It is true but is an obvious and trivial truth.

Marcus is rejecting it and pasting from a Liberal Israeli Web site who rejects it.

I don't think history of the Holocaust is trivial, and I understand you would never mean it that way and maybe could worded that differently. I believe it is important from several different reasons.

There is so much to think about with this. When you see the history of how after invading Poland, and having millions of folks to "deal" with in regard to their hate policies....it really shows how they just were not prepared for it. They certainly had the philosophy behind wanting to be great Arian nation and have a thousand years Reich....but the more you read about it, the more we see that they weren't prepared and I believe that is a import part of the history, and again I believe we should not view the history leading up to and reasons for places like the Warsaw Ghetto as a trivial truth.

One of the most memorable and shocking scenes in a world war two movie for me, is in the Pianist, when Szpilman was chased out of the German hospital and climbed the wall and viewed the Ghetto after it was destroyed and the Jews sent to the camps.....



This is the real thing after the uprising.

[canpakes]

Lol...Whatever, you stuck your foot in your mouth once again and are just making stuff up now, telling people that were in a conversation, what they were talking about. The context of temporary solution was with the Ghetto, as the link I provided backs up; it was what I was talking about. You missed it, you were late coming in and are just to proud to say you screwed up, which is an integrity issue I suppose.

Going all in on your misunderstanding of the discussion wont help you. Morley was not focusing on logistics, which is why I questioned why you were bringing in talk of a ‘temporary solution’ of logistics in response to Cooper’s apparent bemoaning of Sad Nazis who were forced to kill Jews because they had no place to put them, or were unable to keep them from going hungry after rounding them up or corralling them into ghettos or camps.

I’ll just keep repeating the obvious as many times as you want to dance around it. Just like I can keep repeating the original questions that don’t ask you anything about ‘temporary solutions’ and that you can’t bring yourself to answer:

1. Can you explain why the Nazis “kept the Jews in ghettos and worked and starved them to death for the most part, when they were not beating and shooting them”… but then felt stressed when they rounded them up and couldn’t starve them fast enough while stuffed into concentration camps?

2. Do you believe Cooper’s claim?

Tell us how you feel about those unfortunate Sad Nazis, Markk.

Just like with the SB54 California Immigration act. It was created and signed to support sanctuary cities. It was discussed and defended as such on the news, radio, and papers....debated as such by conservative and liberal laws enforcement agencies is California, but because you didn't do your homework and look and see if there were actually laws on the books for such a thing, you very lamely say there is no such law, it means something else, and does not do what it was intended to do, protect illegal immigrants, including those that commit horrific crimes.

I get that you’re angry that you can’t make people stop seeing that the law doesn’t say or do what you claim that it does, especially after you kept posting sections of the law that absolutely did not say or do what you claimed that it did. But, redirect your chagrin to that other thread, not this one.

[canpakes]

Markk wrote: My point about Cooper and still is that his claim, which was disputed by some, is that the Germans were no prepared for the Millions of political prisoners, POW's, and Jew's.....which is just a historical fact.

Huck Replied: Markk, this historical fact has not been rejected. It is true but is an obvious and trivial truth.

Marcus is rejecting it and pasting from a Liberal Israeli Web site who rejects it.

That so-called ‘liberal Israeli website’ is the World Holocaust Remembrance Center in Israel. It is hitting the nail on the head here, in addressing Cooper’s Sad Nazi story, which you keep trying to avoid.

About the WHRC, from Wiki:

“Yad Vashem (Hebrew: יָד וַשֵׁם; lit. 'a memorial and a name') is Israel's official memorial institution to the victims of the Holocaust known in Hebrew as the Shoah (שואה). It is dedicated to preserving the memory of the Jews who were murdered; echoing the stories of the survivors; honoring Jews who fought against their Nazi oppressors and gentiles who selflessly aided Jews in need; and researching the phenomenon of the Holocaust in particular and genocide in general, with the aim of avoiding such events in the future. Yad Vashem's vision, as stated on its website, is: "To lead the documentation, research, education and commemoration of the Holocaust, and to convey the chronicles of this singular Jewish and human event to every person in Israel, to the Jewish people, and to every significant and relevant audience worldwide."

Established in 1953, Yad Vashem is located on the Mount of Remembrance, on the western slope of Mount Herzl, a height in western Jerusalem, 804 meters (2,638 ft) above sea level and adjacent to the Jerusalem Forest. The memorial consists of a 180-dunam (18.0 ha; 44.5-acre) complex containing two types of facilities: some dedicated to the scientific study of the Holocaust, and memorials and museums serving the needs of the wider public. Among the former are an International Research Institute for Holocaust Research, an archives, a library, a publishing house and the International School for Holocaust Studies; the latter include the Holocaust History Museum, memorial sites such as the Children's Memorial and the Hall of Remembrance, the Museum of Holocaust Art, sculptures, outdoor commemorative sites such as the Valley of the Communities, as well as a synagogue.“

You’re now attempting to throw one of the world’s premier sources of Holocaust studies out the window in favor of a ‘historian’ pushing a Nazi apologetic narrative, because you couldn’t follow a conversation.