WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

[Markk]

...Copper was speaking generally, and of POW's Citizens and Jews alike...."people." The memo was specifically addressing Jews, and I cut and pasted it directly.

LOL, let me get this straight....you did not read and understand the two paragraphs, at first, and concede you are wrong, and then acuss me of being pro Nazi because I quote word for word a Memo, that Marcus pointed me two, from a SS major addressing folks in charge of camps being set up with to deal with Jews, and I am some how pro Nazi?

What the actual hell is that????????? I did NOT point you to a memo, it was the exact one that Cooper was misrepresenting and that you posted about multiple times both before and after I posted a press release pointing out that Cooper's interpretation was wrong.

Get your damned facts straight, you idiot. Now I really understand why people find you annoying as hell. You lie and misrepresent and obfuscate. Trying to have a discussion with you is impossibly ridiculous. And your spelling and grammar are atrocious. I could forgive that, but not when it's embedded in your lies.

Lol....

Your assertion was this....

Marcus: Cooper attempts to prove his mistaken point by quoting a letter supposedly from a German Wehrmacht officer, where he indicates that the murder of civilians and POWS in the USSR was out of “humane” concerns due to insufficient food supplies. This, too, is patently false. In reality, the letter by SS officer Rolf-Heinz Höppner on 16 July 1941, advocated for the murder of all the Jews in the western region of occupied Poland, called by the Nazis the Warthegau. Misrepresenting this as anything but intentional mass murder distorts history and downplays the Nazis responsibility for the Holocaust and for their other crimes.
https://www.yadvashem.org/press-release ... 16-52.html

This is Your link

Recently, Darryl Cooper, in a podcast with Tucker Carlson, made statements that grossly misrepresent the German Nazi regime’s actions during Operation Barbarossa in 1941. Cooper claimed that the Nazis were "unprepared" to handle millions of prisoners of war and political dissidents, suggesting their brutality was a result of poor planning. This statement is patently false. The German invasion of the Soviet Union was long-planned and included genocidal strategies of dealing with the local Jewish population not as a response to logistical challenges, but as an ideological one.

Yad Vashem Chairman Dani Dayan remarked:

"Tucker Carlson and his guest Darryl Cooper engaged in one of the most repugnant forms of Holocaust denial of recent years. These far-fetched conspiracy theories are not only dangerous and malevolent, they are antisemitic."

Cooper attempts to prove his mistaken point by quoting a letter supposedly from a German Wehrmacht officer, where he indicates that the murder of civilians and POWS in the USSR was out of “humane” concerns due to insufficient food supplies. This, too, is patently false. In reality, the letter by SS officer Rolf-Heinz Höppner on 16 July 1941, advocated for the murder of all the Jews in the western region of occupied Poland, called by the Nazis the Warthegau. Misrepresenting this as anything but intentional mass murder distorts history and downplays the Nazis responsibility for the Holocaust and for their other crimes.

Head of Yad Vashem's International Institute for Holocaust Research Prof. Dan Michman states:

"Mr. Cooper isn't known for having done any scholarly research on Nazism and the Holocaust, and his statements in this interview clearly demonstrate his ignorance."

It is crucial to uphold the truth of these events. Approximately six million Jews, including some four million killed near their homes in Eastern Europe, were murdered as part of the Nazis’ systematic genocide called by them “The Final Solution to the Jewish Question.” Any attempt to distort these historical facts or explain this away sanitizes these genocidal crimes and dishonors the memory of the victims.

This is the Memo by Rolf....


L Hö/S
To the Reichssicherheitshauptamt
Office IV B 4
to the attention of SS-Obersturmbannführer Eichmann
Berlin

Dear Comrade Eichmann,
Attached please find a memorandum summarizing various meetings at the local Reichsstatthalterei. I would appreciate your occasional feedback on it. Some of the things sound fantastic, but in my opinion, they are entirely feasible.

SS-Sturmbannführer

1 Enclosement

L Hö/S Posen, 16 July 1941

Memo

Re.: Solution of the Jewish Question

During meetings at the Reichsstatthalterei, the issue of the Jewish question in the Reichsgau Wartheland was brought up by various parties. The following solution is proposed there:

1. All Jews of the Warthegau will be taken to a camp for 300,000 Jews, which will be constructed in the closest proximity possible to the coal transport route in the form of barracks, and will include barracks-style facilities for economic activities, tailoring, shoemaking, etc.

2. All Jews of the Warthegau will be brought to this camp. Able-bodied Jews can be assembled into work units as needed and pulled out of the camp.

3. According to SS-Brigadeführer Albert, such a camp can be guarded with significantly fewer police forces than is currently the case. Additionally, the risk of epidemics, which repeatedly threatens the surrounding population in Litzmannstadt and other ghettos, is minimized.

4. There is a danger this winter that the Jews may not all be able to be fed. It is seriously worth considering whether the most humane solution is not to eliminate the Jews, as far as they are not capable of working, by some quick-acting agent. In any case, this would be more pleasant than letting them starve.

5. Furthermore, the proposal was made to sterilize all Jewish women in this camp who are still expecting children, so that with this generation, the Jewish problem is indeed completely solved.


...My point about Cooper and still is that his claim, which was disputed by some, is that the Germans were no prepared for the Millions of political prisoners, POW's, and Jew's.....which is just a historical fact...

SS-Sturmbannführer

Who was lying here Marcus. Was the source you quoted being honest?

I had written this, which made you post the link....

Markk: ...My point about Cooper and still is that his claim, which was disputed by some, is that the Germans were no prepared for the Millions of political prisoners, POW's, and Jew's.....which is just a historical fact...

The letter proves that they were not prepared as Cooper said, it a letter to Berlin asking questions on what to do about the Jewish Question.

From the Memo: 6. The Reichsstatthalter has not yet commented on this matter. There is the impression that Government President Übelhör does not want the ghetto in Litzmannstadt to disappear, as he seems to be making quite a profit from it. As an example of how one can profit from Jews, I was informed that the Reich Ministry of Labor pays RM 6 from a special fund for every Jew employed in work, but the Jew costs only 80 Pfg.

[Chap]

What would Europe be like if the US did not enter the war, and Russia would have actually defeated Germany on their own. Keep in mind, they could not even entirely defeat Finland on their own in 39 and agreed to a peace treaty with Finland, but lets say the did defeat the Germans and their Allies, and even possibly Japan, without the US.

As Chap notes, Germany and Japan forced the US to enter the war and America had no choice in the matter, so the question is of a variety of nonsense.

As an aside, it looks like you're having a difficult time defending Cooper's BS, so you're changing the subject.

That's about right. So far as I follow Markk's reasoning, he is trying to get me to express gratitude to the US for entering WW2. Amirite?

But the US entering WW2 was not the result of a decision of the US government; it was the result of Japan and Germany declaring war on the US. The US had no choice in the matter (well, I suppose they could have surrendered ...). So is the idea that I should be grateful to Japan and Germany for getting the US involved in WW2?

I don't think Markk has thought this through.

[Morley]

...My point about Cooper and still is that his claim, which was disputed by some, is that the Germans were no prepared for the Millions of political prisoners, POW's, and Jew's.....which is just a historical fact...

Markk, who disputed it? Perhaps you'll link to this? I glanced through the posts, and I couldn't find anyone asserting that the Nazis were fully prepared for what you're calling "the Millions of political prisoners, POW's, and Jew's".

[Morley]

As Chap notes, Germany and Japan forced the US to enter the war and America had no choice in the matter, so the question is of a variety of nonsense.

As an aside, it looks like you're having a difficult time defending Cooper's BS, so you're changing the subject.

That's about right. So far as I follow Markk's reasoning, he is trying to get me to express gratitude to the US for entering WW2. Amirite?

But the US entering WW2 was not the result of a decision of the US government; it was the result of Japan and Germany declaring war on the US. The US had no choice in the matter (well, I suppose they could have surrendered ...). So is the idea that I should be grateful to Japan and Germany for getting the US involved in WW2?

I don't think Markk has thought this through.

Maybe Markk will express gratitude that you Brits didn't just roll over and let the Axis powers over take Europe and the Pacific while the US was dilly-dallying around. After consolidating their gains, a stronger Germany and Japan might have then been in a position to team up against the US in her isolation. Perhaps Markk would agree to run that 'what if' scenario?

[Markk]

That's about right. So far as I follow Markk's reasoning, he is trying to get me to express gratitude to the US for entering WW2. Amirite?

But the US entering WW2 was not the result of a decision of the US government; it was the result of Japan and Germany declaring war on the US. The US had no choice in the matter (well, I suppose they could have surrendered ...). So is the idea that I should be grateful to Japan and Germany for getting the US involved in WW2?

I don't think Markk has thought this through.

Maybe Markk will express gratitude that you Brits didn't just roll over and let the Axis powers over take Europe and the Pacific while the US was dilly-dallying around. After consolidating their gains, a stronger Germany and Japan might have then been in a position to team up against the US in her isolation. Perhaps Markk would agree to run that 'what if' scenario?

Sure. Britain has been a great partner. I am glad that they did not roll over for sure, as should countries like France and Holland. Their intelligence branches were unmatched. And their will admirable.

Do you actually believe that the US was dilly dallying around? Okay Noted.

The US was coming off the great depression, We were strongly isolationists. At the time we entered the war, we had around the 15th or so largest "army" in the world. We were not seen as a military strength.

We were not ready for a war in 1939, let alone a two front world war. Romania had a larger Army than us. The Soviets had the largest, yet France was seen as the best. Britain hands down had the greatest navy. Germany was up there, but not as powerful as some think, Italy was there but lacked decent equipment and will. Ther eis a old joke about Italy, "for sale, Italian rifles, dropped once never fired."

But anyways, the US was in no way ready for a war, especially in Europe. We were getting are rears kicked in the Pacific, in such places as Wake, Guam, and the Philippines. We were fighting with WW1 outdated equipment, with untrained troops, against a very experienced and battle hardened Japanese army and navy that had been fighting Russia, China, and other countries for years.

From the day that FDR declared war, to D-Day, was just a few short years, and what we accomplished in those two years, not only getting ourselves ready, but supplying Russia, Britain, and other nations with means to sustain the Axis threats, is truly a amazing feat in my opinion, and everything but dilly dallying.

If Japan and Germany teamed up against the US in their isolation? Well, that is a good question. For one we had a advantage in that we were and are self sustaining, so we had a great advantage. Both Germany and Japan did not have the natural recourses to sustain their selves as a growing world power. Germany need the Ukraine, for oil and for their food stocks. The US had all the oil we needed, and all the food we needed.

We had a huge advantage in regard to a natural defense, in that we had the Atlantic ocean and the Pacific Ocean around us. Germany had a relatively small Navy and was not a threat. Japan was a Navel power, but we know from hindsight not large enough, and no country understood that we were coming out of WW1 battleship era, and coming into the aircraft carrier era. We had the industrial might, to produce, we had the ability turn our auto factories and steel mills into making the materials needed for effective defensive and offense war.

Where I would worry, especially with Germany, is the race for atomic weapons. If we stayed out of the war, I am not sure how that would have faired. It is scarry to think about. If Japan would not have attacked Pearl, and if Germany would not have attacked us with the summaries....who knows what would have happened in regard to the race for the A bomb.

[Markk]

...My point about Cooper and still is that his claim, which was disputed by some, is that the Germans were no prepared for the Millions of political prisoners, POW's, and Jew's.....which is just a historical fact...

Markk, who disputed it? Perhaps you'll link to this? I glanced through the posts, and I couldn't find anyone asserting that the Nazis were fully prepared for what you're calling "the Millions of political prisoners, POW's, and Jew's".

Lol, the good we all agree with Cooper.

[Markk]

As Chap notes, Germany and Japan forced the US to enter the war and America had no choice in the matter, so the question is of a variety of nonsense.

As an aside, it looks like you're having a difficult time defending Cooper's BS, so you're changing the subject.

That's about right. So far as I follow Markk's reasoning, he is trying to get me to express gratitude to the US for entering WW2. Amirite?

But the US entering WW2 was not the result of a decision of the US government; it was the result of Japan and Germany declaring war on the US. The US had no choice in the matter (well, I suppose they could have surrendered ...). So is the idea that I should be grateful to Japan and Germany for getting the US involved in WW2?

I don't think Markk has thought this through.

I am trying to have an objective discussion.

I think there is room here for you to acknowledge the roll the US played in the war. My questions are fair, very fair. I don't understand why you are afraid to enter into a conversation about what the US did for Britain and the Allies in regard to the war.

You can just talk about me to others here, or you can dig in and actually do some reading on the subject.

[Chap]

I think there is room here for you to acknowledge the roll the US played in the war.

Have a look back in the thread, and you will see that I have done that. But it was not quite the role (note the spelling) that you imagine.