James Tour Response

[MG 2.0]

On another thread IHQ challenged me to send a Book of Mormon to Dr. James Tour, renowned organic chemist and also well known Christian apologist.

I wrote him and email.

Here was his response:

I have had many LDS friends over the years and many have given me copies of the Book. Sometimes leather bound and gold leafed. I have not read it, however.



I have worked with LDS, and others have worked for me. All fine folks. Honest. Hard-working. Polite. Family oriented.



I admire the planning and preparing that goes into the mission year. That makes LDS more mature than others.



I never met a LDS that I didn’t like.



I have no opinion on LDS theology. I have read snippets from cult-watch-type articles, but I have not put much thought into that.



God bless,

Jim

He is a brother in Christ.

I thought that was nice of him to respond. Belief in Jesus Christ and His resurrection does not mean checking one's brain in at the door.

He has his God given agency to either accept an invitation to investigate the church further or not.

Regards,
MG

[drumdude]

I agree that by and large Mormons are incredibly kind individuals. It’s nice to see someone have the same experience.

[Marcus]

I agree that by and large Mormons are incredibly kind individuals. It’s nice to see someone have the same experience.

They are kind in the generic sense. If you are percieved as having broken their rules, such as by being a female on a non-Mormon path, they are not. Once again, i would ask you to consider whether the fact that you are male influences how you are treated by Mormons.

[Gadianton]

So he's decent and has some tact. Everything he said is straight out of the born again playbook right up to the last sentence.

The choices are, "I don't know much about it", "haven't thought about it", and "your doctrine is from the pit of hell."

The last is an example of a reborn comment I got from a lay minister once as a missionary after he spent a couple minutes talking about how totally cool Mormons are and how he knows this guy and that guy in the area.

The subtext is he believes you're in a cult. Just as you believe James Tour is working with fragments of truth after the Great Apostasy destroyed the true church Jesus set up.

[drumdude]

I agree that by and large Mormons are incredibly kind individuals. It’s nice to see someone have the same experience.

They are kind in the generic sense. If you are percieved as having broken their rules, such as by being a female on a non-Mormon path, they are not. Once again, i would ask you to consider whether the fact that you are male influences how you are treated by Mormons.

I don’t have any doubt that the female experience is very different within as patriarchal a religion as Mormonism. My wife had to be ok with having sister wives in the afterlife, for heavens sake! That alone is enough in my mind to condemn the entire religion.

[Marcus]

They are kind in the generic sense. If you are percieved as having broken their rules, such as by being a female on a non-Mormon path, they are not. Once again, i would ask you to consider whether the fact that you are male influences how you are treated by Mormons.

I don’t have any doubt that the female experience is very different within as patriarchal a religion as Mormonism. My wife had to be ok with having sister wives in the afterlife, for heavens sake! That alone is enough in my mind to condemn the entire religion.

I'm glad you see that.

I agree that by and large Mormons are incredibly kind individuals...

So to clarify, are you saying when Mormon men talk to other men, they are "incredibly kind"?

Beauase having a Mormon man talk kindly to me does NOT obviate the sexism they believe in.

I do not see men who follow sexist expectations in their religion as "incredibly kind" people. Maybe you could ask your wife if having a sexist talk nicely to her is something that she views as "incredibly kind."

[drumdude]

So to clarify, are you saying when Mormon men talk to other men, they are "incredibly kind"?

Beauase having a Mormon man talk kindly to me does NOT obviate the sexism they believe in.

I do not see men who follow sexist expectations in their religion as "incredibly kind" people. Maybe you could ask your wife if having a sexist talk nicely to her is something that she views as "incredibly kind."

You raise a lot of valid points here Marcus. I don’t have any issues with them, and I agree that there is a lot more going on under the veneer of kindness.

[I Have Questions]

On another thread IHQ challenged me to send a Book of Mormon to Dr. James Tour, renowned organic chemist and also well known Christian apologist.

I wrote him and email.

Here was his response:

I have had many LDS friends over the years and many have given me copies of the Book. Sometimes leather bound and gold leafed. I have not read it, however.



I have worked with LDS, and others have worked for me. All fine folks. Honest. Hard-working. Polite. Family oriented.



I admire the planning and preparing that goes into the mission year. That makes LDS more mature than others.



I never met a LDS that I didn’t like.



I have no opinion on LDS theology. I have read snippets from cult-watch-type articles, but I have not put much thought into that.



God bless,

Jim

He is a brother in Christ.

I thought that was nice of him to respond. Belief in Jesus Christ and His resurrection does not mean checking one's brain in at the door.

He has his God given agency to either accept an invitation to investigate the church further or not.

Regards,
MG

Firstly, congratulations on doing some real missionary work. But this reads like you’ve cherry picked things from his response. I’d be interested in reading his full response. I’d also be interested in the full text of the email you sent, but will understand if that’s something you want kept private.

I note he introduces the word cult into your exchange about The Book of Mormon. And despite having several opportunities to do so, has decided The Book of Mormon isn’t worth his time. Might be worth a follow up to understand why he doesn’t feel it worth his time. I note he’s also, gently and politely, telling you not to send him another one.

I would also note that he isn’t your brother in Christ, despite your assertion that he is. He’s somebody that needs to be converted to Mormonism before that can be asserted. Until then you will always harbour the notion that he’s not in the correct religion. He’s maybe a distant cousin in Christ, but it’s awkward at family gatherings.


P.S. Did you gain his permission to make public his private communication with you?