Formal Mormon Theology

[Marcus]

A comprehensive overview of all fruits would be too big for here, so I’ll focus on a few related to the topic of truth which my comment originally referred to.

Joseph Smith provided in the form of the Temple a way of distributing esoteric knowledge from the Masonic lineage, it can be seen as a dishonest thing to steal from them, but at least he began a tradition that could bring these things to the members, and I am a grateful beneficiary of that tradition.

Unfortunately in his own day we also see that he was very against the Nauvoo Expositor, to the point of denying their freedom of press, this authoritarian behavior, is very much against having truth prevail. How can it prevail if intelligent people cannot express their views without fear?

This leads to another thing, BYU professors being censored, rendering them unable to express what they believe is truth for fear of losing their livelihoods. I reckon half the time their unorthodox views aren’t necessarily even problematic for a liberal Mormon, but it is for the Mormon Inquisition apparently.

That being said, in less touchy matters BYU has a good tradition of supporting the advancement of knowledge. I am impressed by BYU’s research in compliant mechanisms for example which has gained attention outside the Church simply because of its good merit, what might be termed tier 1 apologetics by Gadianton.

How much of these later effects can be attributed to Mr. Smith though? He started the Mormon movement but it was the correlation committee that has spawned the toxic anti-intellectual environment, this is something that the Community of Christ does not suffer from as far as I know which Church we must also consider to be one of his fruits. It was early students of BYU like Talmadge as well as its founder Karl Maiser that promoted its pursuit of truth, though arguably Mr. Smith’s pursuit of knowledge about languages in the School of the Prophets set the precedent for this.

I’ve tried to be fair in my assessment, giving both positives and negatives. It is my opinion that the things most directly attributable to him have been more harmful though such as the destruction of the Expositor as well as stealing from the Masons (even if I reap the benefit of that dishonesty).

I think your assessment is absolutely correct.

[MG 2.0]

A comprehensive overview of all fruits would be too big for here, so I’ll focus on a few related to the topic of truth which my comment originally referred to.

Joseph Smith provided in the form of the Temple a way of distributing esoteric knowledge from the Masonic lineage, it can be seen as a dishonest thing to steal from them, but at least he began a tradition that could bring these things to the members, and I am a grateful beneficiary of that tradition.

Unfortunately in his own day we also see that he was very against the Nauvoo Expositor, to the point of denying their freedom of press, this authoritarian behavior, is very much against having truth prevail. How can it prevail if intelligent people cannot express their views without fear?

This leads to another thing, BYU professors being censored, rendering them unable to express what they believe is truth for fear of losing their livelihoods. I reckon half the time their unorthodox views aren’t necessarily even problematic for a liberal Mormon, but it is for the Mormon Inquisition apparently.

That being said, in less touchy matters BYU has a good tradition of supporting the advancement of knowledge. I am impressed by BYU’s research in compliant mechanisms for example which has gained attention outside the Church simply because of its good merit, what might be termed tier 1 apologetics by Gadianton.

How much of these later effects can be attributed to Mr. Smith though? He started the Mormon movement but it was the correlation committee that has spawned the toxic anti-intellectual environment, this is something that the Community of Christ does not suffer from as far as I know which Church we must also consider to be one of his fruits. It was early students of BYU like Talmadge as well as its founder Karl Maiser that promoted its pursuit of truth, though arguably Mr. Smith’s pursuit of knowledge about languages in the School of the Prophets set the precedent for this.

I’ve tried to be fair in my assessment, giving both positives and negatives. It is my opinion that the things most directly attributable to him have been more harmful though such as the destruction of the Expositor as well as stealing from the Masons (even if I reap the benefit of that dishonesty).

I think your assessment is absolutely correct.

And as I mentioned in the post just before this one I mostly agreed...with a bit more to add than your "absolutely".

There are typically more moving parts than you might like to admit.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

...There are typically more moving parts than you might like to admit...

Another passive aggressive comment that adds nothing to the conversation, and does not indicate "a desire to move toward civil discussion".

So, back to the topic:

A comprehensive overview of all fruits would be too big for here, so I’ll focus on a few related to the topic of truth which my comment originally referred to.

Joseph Smith provided in the form of the Temple a way of distributing esoteric knowledge from the Masonic lineage, it can be seen as a dishonest thing to steal from them, but at least he began a tradition that could bring these things to the members, and I am a grateful beneficiary of that tradition.

Unfortunately in his own day we also see that he was very against the Nauvoo Expositor, to the point of denying their freedom of press, this authoritarian behavior, is very much against having truth prevail. How can it prevail if intelligent people cannot express their views without fear?

This leads to another thing, BYU professors being censored, rendering them unable to express what they believe is truth for fear of losing their livelihoods. I reckon half the time their unorthodox views aren’t necessarily even problematic for a liberal Mormon, but it is for the Mormon Inquisition apparently.

That being said, in less touchy matters BYU has a good tradition of supporting the advancement of knowledge. I am impressed by BYU’s research in compliant mechanisms for example which has gained attention outside the Church simply because of its good merit, what might be termed tier 1 apologetics by Gadianton.

How much of these later effects can be attributed to Mr. Smith though? He started the Mormon movement but it was the correlation committee that has spawned the toxic anti-intellectual environment, this is something that the Community of Christ does not suffer from as far as I know which Church we must also consider to be one of his fruits. It was early students of BYU like Talmadge as well as its founder Karl Maiser that promoted its pursuit of truth, though arguably Mr. Smith’s pursuit of knowledge about languages in the School of the Prophets set the precedent for this.

I’ve tried to be fair in my assessment, giving both positives and negatives. It is my opinion that the things most directly attributable to him have been more harmful though such as the destruction of the Expositor as well as stealing from the Masons (even if I reap the benefit of that dishonesty).

I think your assessment is absolutely correct.

[MG 2.0]

...There are typically more moving parts than you might like to admit...

Another passive aggressive comment that adds nothing to the conversation, and does not indicate "a desire to move toward civil discussion".

Not true.

TTOC

[Marcus]

So, back to the topic:

A comprehensive overview of all fruits would be too big for here, so I’ll focus on a few related to the topic of truth which my comment originally referred to.

Joseph Smith provided in the form of the Temple a way of distributing esoteric knowledge from the Masonic lineage, it can be seen as a dishonest thing to steal from them, but at least he began a tradition that could bring these things to the members, and I am a grateful beneficiary of that tradition.

Unfortunately in his own day we also see that he was very against the Nauvoo Expositor, to the point of denying their freedom of press, this authoritarian behavior, is very much against having truth prevail. How can it prevail if intelligent people cannot express their views without fear?

This leads to another thing, BYU professors being censored, rendering them unable to express what they believe is truth for fear of losing their livelihoods. I reckon half the time their unorthodox views aren’t necessarily even problematic for a liberal Mormon, but it is for the Mormon Inquisition apparently.

That being said, in less touchy matters BYU has a good tradition of supporting the advancement of knowledge. I am impressed by BYU’s research in compliant mechanisms for example which has gained attention outside the Church simply because of its good merit, what might be termed tier 1 apologetics by Gadianton.

How much of these later effects can be attributed to Mr. Smith though? He started the Mormon movement but it was the correlation committee that has spawned the toxic anti-intellectual environment, this is something that the Community of Christ does not suffer from as far as I know which Church we must also consider to be one of his fruits. It was early students of BYU like Talmadge as well as its founder Karl Maiser that promoted its pursuit of truth, though arguably Mr. Smith’s pursuit of knowledge about languages in the School of the Prophets set the precedent for this.

I’ve tried to be fair in my assessment, giving both positives and negatives. It is my opinion that the things most directly attributable to him have been more harmful though such as the destruction of the Expositor as well as stealing from the Masons (even if I reap the benefit of that dishonesty).

I think your assessment is absolutely correct.

[Ego]

So, back to the topic:

A comprehensive overview of all fruits would be too big for here, so I’ll focus on a few related to the topic of truth which my comment originally referred to.

Joseph Smith provided in the form of the Temple a way of distributing esoteric knowledge from the Masonic lineage, it can be seen as a dishonest thing to steal from them, but at least he began a tradition that could bring these things to the members, and I am a grateful beneficiary of that tradition.

Unfortunately in his own day we also see that he was very against the Nauvoo Expositor, to the point of denying their freedom of press, this authoritarian behavior, is very much against having truth prevail. How can it prevail if intelligent people cannot express their views without fear?

This leads to another thing, BYU professors being censored, rendering them unable to express what they believe is truth for fear of losing their livelihoods. I reckon half the time their unorthodox views aren’t necessarily even problematic for a liberal Mormon, but it is for the Mormon Inquisition apparently.

That being said, in less touchy matters BYU has a good tradition of supporting the advancement of knowledge. I am impressed by BYU’s research in compliant mechanisms for example which has gained attention outside the Church simply because of its good merit, what might be termed tier 1 apologetics by Gadianton.

How much of these later effects can be attributed to Mr. Smith though? He started the Mormon movement but it was the correlation committee that has spawned the toxic anti-intellectual environment, this is something that the Community of Christ does not suffer from as far as I know which Church we must also consider to be one of his fruits. It was early students of BYU like Talmadge as well as its founder Karl Maiser that promoted its pursuit of truth, though arguably Mr. Smith’s pursuit of knowledge about languages in the School of the Prophets set the precedent for this.

I’ve tried to be fair in my assessment, giving both positives and negatives. It is my opinion that the things most directly attributable to him have been more harmful though such as the destruction of the Expositor as well as stealing from the Masons (even if I reap the benefit of that dishonesty).

I think your assessment is absolutely correct.

Your repeated validations are appreciated!

[I Have Questions]

This leads to another thing, BYU professors being censored, rendering them unable to express what they believe is truth for fear of losing their livelihoods. I reckon half the time their unorthodox views aren’t necessarily even problematic for a liberal Mormon, but it is for the Mormon Inquisition apparently.

It’s another good example of the coercive control the Church exerts over its members.

[Ego]

A comprehensive overview of all fruits would be too big for here, so I’ll focus on a few related to the topic of truth which my comment originally referred to.

Joseph Smith provided in the form of the Temple a way of distributing esoteric knowledge from the Masonic lineage, it can be seen as a dishonest thing to steal from them, but at least he began a tradition that could bring these things to the members, and I am a grateful beneficiary of that tradition.

Unfortunately in his own day we also see that he was very against the Nauvoo Expositor, to the point of denying their freedom of press, this authoritarian behavior, is very much against having truth prevail. How can it prevail if intelligent people cannot express their views without fear?

This leads to another thing, BYU professors being censored, rendering them unable to express what they believe is truth for fear of losing their livelihoods. I reckon half the time their unorthodox views aren’t necessarily even problematic for a liberal Mormon, but it is for the Mormon Inquisition apparently.

That being said, in less touchy matters BYU has a good tradition of supporting the advancement of knowledge. I am impressed by BYU’s research in compliant mechanisms for example which has gained attention outside the Church simply because of its good merit, what might be termed tier 1 apologetics by Gadianton.

How much of these later effects can be attributed to Mr. Smith though? He started the Mormon movement but it was the correlation committee that has spawned the toxic anti-intellectual environment, this is something that the Community of Christ does not suffer from as far as I know which Church we must also consider to be one of his fruits. It was early students of BYU like Talmadge as well as its founder Karl Maiser that promoted its pursuit of truth, though arguably Mr. Smith’s pursuit of knowledge about languages in the School of the Prophets set the precedent for this.

I’ve tried to be fair in my assessment, giving both positives and negatives. It is my opinion that the things most directly attributable to him have been more harmful though such as the destruction of the Expositor as well as stealing from the Masons (even if I reap the benefit of that dishonesty).

I more or less agree either completely or partially with most of what you've said here. One thing, however. I don't see the problem with Joseph and Co. taking elements of the Masonic ceremony and using it in the temple endowment. I see it as a template or scaffolding to attach the endowment to. It was there, and they used it.

Borrowed it.

Joseph Smith was not living in a vacuum. There were elements of Mormon Theology already in existence in bits and pieces within the mileu that he found himself in. That, to me, is part of the wonder of the Restoration. Many of the elements/templates/scaffoldings were already in place to build on and flesh out.

Regards,
MG

As I mentioned I am the grateful beneficiary of it so I don’t think of it as a problem for me, I do think it reflects something about Joseph’s honor though, namely that despite being sworn to secrecy by them he still revealed their secrets to people not initiated by them.