And the mentalgymnastical troll has derailed yet another thread, this time by posting, insanely, idiotically, and uselessly, about using A.I.. It's just another work around of Shades' A.I. rule, and the intent is to disrupt, as mg literally admitted yesterday:
... I do think you are upset that I upset your 'critic narrative '. In order to do that I do feel as though it is sometimes/often necessary to get in the 'thick of it'. Of course when I rock the boat...
That's what trolls do:
...[Trolls] post comments or messages on social media platforms with the intention of provoking a reaction from other users.
That's the apologetic on it, but it automatically refutes the translation narratives. They'd have to say the Book of Mormon was translated by using magic spectacles, a magic stone, and by copying a KJV Bible. It's just unravelling. It's why Skousen spent 30 years finding reasons to think the Book of Mormon was pre-translated by 17th Century "spirits". Skousen was only half joking when he proffered to DCP that the Early Modern English in the Book of Mormon was there because John Tindale and some others pre translated the plates in the spirit world. Of course, that explanation doesn't deal with why the mistakes and syntax of the 17th Century KJV Bible appear in a book supposedly sealed up 1,600 years early. They really are clutching at straws with this one. Admitting Joseph Smith copied from the KJV Bible that he had available is the only credible explanation. But that opens the door to it being a fraud.
Thank you Marcus.
The fact remains, that the limited geography theory is just that, a baseless theory based on nothing other than putting a pin in a map that appears to fit what those vested in it read into the Book of Mormon. Another interesting fact is that people, including Peterson, have a financial reason for promoting the Limited Geography location, because they are involved in making money from running tours to that area. They aren't going to look at it objectively if they stand to lose hundreds of thousands of tourist dollars. Perhaps they started with the idea of making money out of tours to Book of Mormon lands and then found a location that fitted the bill.
I recall seeing a map of Joseph Smith's home area in New York, with Book of Mormon locations mapped onto it. It fitted very well. Equally as well (if not better) as the LGT location. And it fits with the other evidences in the book itself that it was a product of Joseph's time and place.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Axil nails it here. Once a person is allowed to make unlimited assertions they must grant the same leeway to every other religion's truth claims.
If the translations are so poor for this to keep recurring over and over, such that evident anachronisms can be discarded as mere contextual errors or translation errors, how can one trust any of the purportedly successful translations as being correct?
Edited to note that mg's derailment about A.I. was split off and moved to A.I. thread. Thank you, mods!!
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And the mentalgymnastical troll has derailed yet another thread, this time by posting, insanely, idiotically, and uselessly, about using A.I.. It's just another work around of Shades' A.I. rule, and the intent is to disrupt, as mg literally admitted yesterday:
... I do think you are upset that I upset your 'critic narrative '. In order to do that I do feel as though it is sometimes/often necessary to get in the 'thick of it'. Of course when I rock the boat...
That's what trolls do:
...[Trolls] post comments or messages on social media platforms with the intention of provoking a reaction from other users.
That's the apologetic on it, but it automatically refutes the translation narratives. They'd have to say the Book of Mormon was translated by using magic spectacles, a magic stone, and by copying a KJV Bible. It's just unravelling. It's why Skousen spent 30 years finding reasons to think the Book of Mormon was pre-translated by 17th Century "spirits". Skousen was only half joking when he proffered to DCP that the Early Modern English in the Book of Mormon was there because John Tindale and some others pre translated the plates in the spirit world. Of course, that explanation doesn't deal with why the mistakes and syntax of the 17th Century KJV Bible appear in a book supposedly sealed up 1,600 years early. They really are clutching at straws with this one. Admitting Joseph Smith copied from the KJV Bible that he had available is the only credible explanation. But that opens the door to it being a fraud.
My response on the other thread:
I didn't use any A.I. quoting or summarizing in my posts to IHQ. My post should have remained in place. There is absolutely no reason that MY WORDS should have been deleted from the thread.
This board is becoming a very difficult place for a believer/member to post. It shouldn't surprise anyone that there is not one other believer/member posting here.
From all appearances the board moderators and certain board members want this place to be an echo chamber. ANYTHING that disturbs that equilibrium is monitored and then attacked from various directions until the enemy is either annihilated or crippled to the point of not being able to take a defensive position.
You will NEVER see another active and believing member of the church participate here because positions other than the status quo are attacked in such a way and by various means that the words of the believer are made to seem ludicrous and coming from someone who cannot be trusted.
That does not comport to civil conversation on equal footing.
“DCP” wrote:
The main impetus for the "limited" aspect of the model was a close reading of the Book of Mormon text, which plainly and consistently yields small distances in every direction.
It was just a happy coincidence that a close reading of the text came up with an explanation to fit the lack of evidence.
There is no archeological evidence at the spot of land (narrow neck) in which Smith envisioned thousands of travelers over the centuries crossing the narrow neck in order to journey into the the land northward. This very spot is key to Book of Mormon geography. The horizontal line of axis from sea to sea is only a day's journey.
I bear testimony of my understanding (revelation from God) that Delmarva was the fictional land in which Smith used to develop and map out his story beginning at the southernmost tip of Delmarva. He kept the matter private and allowed believers to morph into the hemispheric model in order to build faith and expand the vision.
I believe that Peterson's ego and bad spirit has corrupted him.
This board is becoming a very difficult place for a believer/member to post. It shouldn't surprise anyone that there is not one other believer/member posting here.
From all appearances the board moderators and certain board members want this place to be an echo chamber. ANYTHING that disturbs that equilibrium is monitored and then attacked from various directions until the enemy is either annihilated or crippled to the point of not being able to take a defensive position.
You will NEVER see another active and believing member of the church participate here because positions other than the status quo are attacked in such a way and by various means that the words of the believer are made to seem ludicrous and coming from someone who cannot be trusted.
That does not comport to civil conversation on equal footing.
The fact is that when you do take clear positions on matters of fact relating to the history and teachings of the LDS church, it is often not very difficult for someone opposed to the positions you take to point out the obvious flaws in them. You find this uncomfortable, certainly, but there is an alternative to simply expressing resentment at this.
Consider the alternative of asking yourself whether the positions taken by you may not simply be false. After all, many of the posters who argue against you are people who left the LDS church because, after considerable mental struggle, they concluded that its teachings were simply not true. That option is open to you.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
How do we distinguish between an indefensible position and one that is being stifled by moderators and/or members? Every single truth claim made by the Mormon church favors the critic. I can see how exhausting that would be as a believer. Eta spelling
Last edited by Rivendale on Thu Jul 17, 2025 10:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
It was just a happy coincidence that a close reading of the text came up with an explanation to fit the lack of evidence.
There is no archeological evidence at the spot of land (narrow neck) in which Smith envisioned thousands of travelers over the centuries crossing the narrow neck in order to journey into the the land northward. This very spot is key to Book of Mormon geography. The horizontal line of axis from sea to sea is only a day's journey.
I bear testimony of my understanding (revelation from God) that Delmarva was the fictional land in which Smith used to develop and map out his story beginning at the southernmost tip of Delmarva. He kept the matter private and allowed believers to morph into the hemispheric model in order to build faith and expand the vision.
I believe that Peterson's ego and bad spirit has corrupted him.
Amen....
Shulem is making a solid point here. Smith used geography and 19th century concepts with which he was familiar. Over time, the reality of history quite obviously did not support his fantasy. Why Mormons continue to fight to support the fantasy is beyond me.
How to we distinguish between an indefensible position and one that is being stifled by moderators and/or members? Every single truth claim made by the Mormon church favors the critic. I can see how exhausting that would be as a believer.
This board is becoming a very difficult place for a believer/member to post. It shouldn't surprise anyone that there is not one other believer/member posting here.
From all appearances the board moderators and certain board members want this place to be an echo chamber. ANYTHING that disturbs that equilibrium is monitored and then attacked from various directions until the enemy is either annihilated or crippled to the point of not being able to take a defensive position.
I agree that the quest you’ve taken on is very difficult, as you are probably the sole voice representing the viewpoint of the Church, but the post you’re referring to was only moved to another thread in this same forum due to a completely different reason, as given at the link below:
Shulem is making a solid point here. Smith used geography and 19th century concepts with which he was familiar. Over time, the reality of history quite obviously did not support his fantasy. Why Mormons continue to fight to support the fantasy is beyond me.
Brant Gardner's brain is soaked in Book of Mormon drugs making him totally incapable of being rational. Reading his apologetic garbage makes me think of walkers from the Walking Dead. Gardner's testimonkey brain is soaked in toxicity. He's like a lost zombie wandering about looking for something to eat. The poor man gives me the creeps. The best way to deal with these lying creeps is to shoot down their arguments and send them packing.
MG, he's like a little boy incapable of making his own argument because he doesn't know jack.
This board is becoming a very difficult place for a believer/member to post. It shouldn't surprise anyone that there is not one other believer/member posting here.
From all appearances the board moderators and certain board members want this place to be an echo chamber. ANYTHING that disturbs that equilibrium is monitored and then attacked from various directions until the enemy is either annihilated or crippled to the point of not being able to take a defensive position.
I agree that the quest you’ve taken on is very difficult, as you are probably the sole voice representing the viewpoint of the Church, but the post you’re referring to was only moved to another thread in this same forum due to a completely different reason, as given at the link below:
