Simplistic vs nuanced views of death

[I Have Questions]

Simplistic or nuanced ... it seems to not matter at this point because no one knows what lies beyond. Even so, I would rather contemplate what a thoughtful person says rather than a person constrained by a mickey mouse religion. In the end, it's coming to all like it or not.

Tomorrow is July 24 - the holiday for all good pioneer stock to return to the Father/Mother land and pay homage to our relatives that came across the plains for ..... something .... All I know is that my how many ever great grandfather was sworn to secrecy about his Martin Handcart experiences. I guess the amazing story was too amazing for the Mormon population at large, at the time. Probably the propagandist class wasn't that organized at the time ....

That’s sounds like an interesting family anecdote. I’d love to hear more about that.

[Moksha]

I like holding out a glimmer of hope that a nice afterlife will happen after death, where we will be reunited with loved ones. Something like the Mormon paradise, except loving and where everyone is welcome.

[Dr Exiled]

Simplistic or nuanced ... it seems to not matter at this point because no one knows what lies beyond. Even so, I would rather contemplate what a thoughtful person says rather than a person constrained by a mickey mouse religion. In the end, it's coming to all like it or not.

Tomorrow is July 24 - the holiday for all good pioneer stock to return to the Father/Mother land and pay homage to our relatives that came across the plains for ..... something .... All I know is that my how many ever great grandfather was sworn to secrecy about his Martin Handcart experiences. I guess the amazing story was too amazing for the Mormon population at large, at the time. Probably the propagandist class wasn't that organized at the time ....

That sounds like an interesting family anecdote. I’d love to hear more about that.

He unfortunately never broke his promise and our family history is his son (great .... uncle) relating that he wished he could have some personal details about the disastrous handcart trip to insert into the family history he was writing but there weren't any. Loyalty to BY overrode posterity.

ETA: they were pretty young at the time, my great, great .... grandparents. I believe he was 25 and she was 19. They survived and were on foraging and burying the dead detail. Must have been horrific and shouldn't have happened and BY didn't want anything made of his blunder. He had Mountain Meadows to worry about ...

[I Have Questions]

That sounds like an interesting family anecdote. I’d love to hear more about that.

He unfortunately never broke his promise and our family history is his son (great .... uncle) relating that he wished he could have some personal details about the disastrous handcart trip to insert into the family history he was writing but there weren't any. Loyalty to BY overrode posterity.

ETA: they were pretty young at the time, my great, great .... grandparents. I believe he was 25 and she was 19. They survived and were on foraging and burying the dead detail. Must have been horrific and shouldn't have happened and BY didn't want anything made of his blunder. He had Mountain Meadows to worry about ...

Thank you, those are the real stories of Pioneer Day. It strikes me that Pioneer Day shouldn’t be a celebration. It should be a day of remembrance. A day to remember the fallen, the hardship, the lessons learned, the Native Americans that lost their land etc.

When you think about it, what the Pioneers did to the native Americans is what Israel is doing to Palestine. Albeit with less ammunition. The end result was the Native Americans losing the lands of their birthright, just as the Palestinians are being eradicated from their native lands. I’d wager that parallel isn’t considered on Pioneer Day, that the Native American story isn’t told.

I think this is an interesting project…

This spatial history project will map out the beginnings of the white settlement in the mountainous sub-region of the United States West, now modern-day Utah. Led by Brigham Young, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (the Mormon Church) began to settle in Salt Lake Valley in 1847, having been driven out of Illinois by religious persecution and envisioning a new Zion in the American West. The expansion of their settlement led to conflict with natives over territory, resources and sovereignty (Cannon 1952: 893). Over the next half-century, migration, conflict, forced relocation, disease and trophy hunting of buffalo would severely impact the Native American population. The completion of the Transcontinental Railroad resulted in more and more white migration until eventually, the remaining Native American people would only make up 1% of Utah's total population in 1900.

The Mormon Pioneer story is really one about the ethnic cleansing of native Americans from the area now known as Utah.