YouTuber Alyssa Grenfell Has Cost The Church 2.4 Million Dollars

[Rivendale]

Almost every tenant of Christianity is contrary to the mass collection of wealth. Yet somehow members find a way to ignore all of those teachings in favor of whatever the church is doing at the time.

The church would not be able to spread throughout the world in the way that it has, especially in the building of chapels and temples, without accumulating great wealth. And to have a backup for downturns in the world economy is just plain common sense.

As it is, the church's teachings encourage members to seek FIRST the Kingdom of God. THEN all else may be added to that first priority. Wealth is then used to clothe the needy and support the needs of others including our families. Sure, you can judge what some members might do with their wealth as being selfish and/ or for self aggrandizement. Humans are going to be humans.

Often I think critics spend a bit too much time judging members and the church for being successful in their temporal affairs. I'm sure you have your reasons for doing so but nonetheless, I don't see what the big deal is. We should, in my opinion, be happy for the success of others. At the same time, we might hope that those who are financially successful are also thinking of others beyond themselves and their own needs/wants. But that's their gig, not ours.

Regards,
MG

It isn't spreading in proportion to its massive hoard and if it weren't for Africa it would at best be flattening and more likely declining. The pew studies on religious attitudes have shown increasing intolerance for Mormons and Mormonism. Recently it was number one in the most despised religions. Money hoarding has created an embarrassment of wealth for the church so much so they tried to hide it from its own members while simultaneously parading a lackey up twice a year for 20 years claiming their internal audits were all in order despite Ensign Peak defrauding the business world.

[I Have Questions]

That’s a big assertion. You’re stating that as a fact. What is your basis for making it? Because there seems to be evidence that you are absolutely wrong. I look forward to you quoting your sources and reasoning for coming up with such a radical assertion (along with quotes from sources and links to those quoted sources). Or should people just go ahead and assume you’ve taken yet another dump of vacuousness on the board?

Yes, the natural tendency for humans is to seek that which is beyond themselves. What I'm saying is that in today's world with all the technology and material distractions people tend to put that natural 'drive' in the backseat in preference to seeking material pleasures and satisfaction.

Oh, so you’re now saying they take the difficult choice to suppress their natural instinct to believe in the supernatural. That’s some U-Turn.

The gospel of Jesus Christ, fortunately, teaches us to put spirituality in the front seat of our consciousness and put the natural man in the backseat.

Unless that spirituality confirms that the gospel of Jesus Christ is to be found somewhere other than the SLC LDS Church. Right?

In my opinion…

Now that’s a much better start to a sentence where you’re about to say something for which you’ve done no research.

…if a person's spirituality is centered on following the moral and ethical teachings of Jesus and putting the pleasures of the flesh in a place where they are being controlled and not being controlling, they are moving in a positive direction towards God.

What do you define as the “pleasures of the flesh”?

The natural man, however, is a powerful driver that can take one off course and even lead away from belief in a supernatural force/being to whom we are accountable for our actions and for our very being.

Do you personally need to believe that a supernatural deity will be cross with you in order for you to behave in a considerate and moral fashion?

[MG 2.0]

Do you personally need to believe that a supernatural deity will be cross with you in order for you to behave in a considerate and moral fashion?

Let me flip this and ask you a question. Do you personally believe that you are accountable to God for your actions while living and breathing on planet earth? If so, do you think that God would encourage you to behave in a considerate and moral fashion? If not, why?

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

It isn't spreading in proportion to its massive hoard and if it weren't for Africa it would at best be flattening and more likely declining.

Do you have the latest statistics that quantify this? Do global trends show this to be the case? Granted, the growth of the church in Africa in 2024 was half of the net increase. Every region in the world, however, saw at least a 20% increase in convert baptisms the first quarter of 2025. Do you see this as significant or not? Where do you get the idea that on a global scale the numbers in the LDS Church are actually declining? Any data to back that up?

The pew studies on religious attitudes have shown increasing intolerance for Mormons and Mormonism. Recently it was number one in the most despised religions.

That is true among Evangelicals and those that are not affiliated with any religion. Overall isn't it Muslims and Buddhists who are considered to be the most disliked?

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

The church would not be able to spread throughout the world in the way that it has, especially in the building of chapels and temples, without accumulating great wealth.

Sure they would.

And to have a backup for downturns in the world economy is just plain common sense.

Because Jesus said to be sure to accumulate more money than you know what to do with.

As it is, the church's teachings encourage members to seek FIRST the Kingdom of God. THEN all else may be added to that first priority.

Talk is cheap. Behavior is more difficult. The Church is teaching by example. The way that the religion exalts the hoarding of money over contributing to charity speaks louder than anything they say.

Wealth is then used to clothe the needy and support the needs of others including our families.

Statistically speaking, no it's not. The wealth is largely used to generate even more wealth.

Sure, you can judge what some members might do with their wealth as being selfish and/ or for self aggrandizement. Humans are going to be humans.

I'm not judging 'some members.' I'm critiquing the covert policies an behemoth organization that I support through their government tax exempt status.

Often I think critics spend a bit too much time judging members and the church for being successful in their temporal affairs.

Sure you do. You would love it if no one said anything about your church's immoral and illegal behavior.

I'm sure you have your reasons for doing so but nonetheless, I don't see what the big deal is.

Which is your way of contributing to their immoral and illegal behavior. Bravo.

We should, in my opinion, be happy for the success of others.

Generally speaking, I am.

At the same time, we might hope that those who are financially successful are also thinking of others beyond themselves and their own needs/wants. But that's their gig, not ours.

Not so. It absolutely is our gig. We have a duty to call out evil and corruption whenever we see it--don't you think?

Your post shows that you have your own opinions that differ from mine.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Belief in the supernatural doesn't come very easily for many of us. The question is, what are you going to replace it with that takes you into the realm of existence after death and continued eternal progress?

It doesn't matter what you replace it with, because you have no control over it whatsoever. Or do you think that merely believing in something magically makes it come true?

I think that what we do actually matters. In the long run. Not just in the here and now. We may differ on that point.

Regards,
MG

[malkie]

The church would not be able to spread throughout the world in the way that it has, especially in the building of chapels and temples, without accumulating great wealth.

Sure they would.

And to have a backup for downturns in the world economy is just plain common sense.

Because Jesus said to be sure to accumulate more money than you know what to do with.

As it is, the church's teachings encourage members to seek FIRST the Kingdom of God. THEN all else may be added to that first priority.

Talk is cheap. Behavior is more difficult. The Church is teaching by example. The way that the religion exalts the hoarding of money over contributing to charity speaks louder than anything they say.

Wealth is then used to clothe the needy and support the needs of others including our families.

Statistically speaking, no it's not. The wealth is largely used to generate even more wealth.

Sure, you can judge what some members might do with their wealth as being selfish and/ or for self aggrandizement. Humans are going to be humans.

I'm not judging 'some members.' I'm critiquing the covert policies an behemoth organization that I support through their government tax exempt status.

Often I think critics spend a bit too much time judging members and the church for being successful in their temporal affairs.

Sure you do. You would love it if no one said anything about your church's immoral and illegal behavior.

I'm sure you have your reasons for doing so but nonetheless, I don't see what the big deal is.

Which is your way of contributing to their immoral and illegal behavior. Bravo.

We should, in my opinion, be happy for the success of others.

Generally speaking, I am.

At the same time, we might hope that those who are financially successful are also thinking of others beyond themselves and their own needs/wants. But that's their gig, not ours.

Not so. It absolutely is our gig. We have a duty to call out evil and corruption whenever we see it--don't you think?

Your post shows that you have your own opinions that differ from mine.

Regards,
MG

OMG, Morley - I'm sure that, until now, you thought that your opinions were the same as MG's.

This news must be crushing for you.

[sorry for the snark - sometimes I just can't help myself. Instead, I should TTOC ]

[MG 2.0]

Your post shows that you have your own opinions that differ from mine.

Regards,
MG

OMG, Morley - I'm sure that, until now, you thought that your opinions were the same as MG's.

This news must be crushing for you.

[sorry for the snark - sometimes I just can't help myself. Instead, I should TTOC ]

I have no problem with you expressing that viewpoint. It was a lot easier to answer him with a one liner than taking his post point by point and end up saying the same thing. Notice with the other posts I've put up recently in this thread I had more to say...because there was more to say.

I didn't want Morley to think I was simply ignoring him.

Regards,
MG

[Rivendale]

It isn't spreading in proportion to its massive hoard and if it weren't for Africa it would at best be flattening and more likely declining.

Do you have the latest statistics that quantify this? Do global trends show this to be the case? Granted, the growth of the church in Africa in 2024 was half of the net increase. Every region in the world, however, saw at least a 20% increase in convert baptisms the first quarter of 2025. Do you see this as significant or not? Where do you get the idea that on a global scale the numbers in the LDS Church are actually declining? Any data to back that up?

The pew studies on religious attitudes have shown increasing intolerance for Mormons and Mormonism. Recently it was number one in the most despised religions.

That is true among Evangelicals and those that are not affiliated with any religion. Overall isn't it Muslims and Buddhists who are considered to be the most disliked?

Regards,
MG

Mormons come in last below Muslims and Atheists. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/20 ... catholics/. A soon to be trillion dollar organization isn't making much headway anywhere other than Africa.

[MG 2.0]

Mormons come in last below Muslims and Atheists. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/20 ... catholics/. A soon to be trillion dollar organization isn't making much headway anywhere other than Africa.

Another link that is helpful although possibly outdated:

https://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/Florida ... erica.html

Why do you think that secular Americans dislike Mormons more than other groups? Not that I have experienced that in any way here.

Regards,
MG