YouTuber Alyssa Grenfell Has Cost The Church 2.4 Million Dollars

[Rivendale]

Hey MG......do you know how long modern versions of humans have been on Earth? I am assuming you do. What I am curious about is the comprehension of the time spans involved and this idea that a some modern humans gets special treatment and others don't which you simply brush off as we don't know why. This gradual build up of judgemental atrocities are predicated on time in this 100 years we are allowed to live? How do you rule out indoctrination?

[MG 2.0]

Hey MG......do you know how long modern versions of humans have been on Earth? I am assuming you do. What I am curious about is the comprehension of the time spans involved and this idea that a some modern humans gets special treatment and others don't which you simply brush off as we don't know why. This gradual build up of judgemental atrocities are predicated on time in this 100 years we are allowed to live? How do you rule out indoctrination?

Indoctrination would exist one way or the other. How long humans have been on the earth and what they've been doing all that time is an interesting topic. Guns, Germs, and Steel (Jared Diamond) tackles the relationship between resources/geography and human flourishing. What that has to do with God and whether or not He has a plan for mankind and reveals parts and/or more of that plan relative to and/or dependent on evolutionary constraints and human flourishing seems to be a separate topic. Doesn't it?

Either God has/does interact with mankind or He doesn't. As I've mentioned, I do believe in a creator God who can also be a personal God.

Regards,
MG

[Rivendale]

Hey MG......do you know how long modern versions of humans have been on Earth? I am assuming you do. What I am curious about is the comprehension of the time spans involved and this idea that a some modern humans gets special treatment and others don't which you simply brush off as we don't know why. This gradual build up of judgemental atrocities are predicated on time in this 100 years we are allowed to live? How do you rule out indoctrination?

Indoctrination would exist one way or the other. How long humans have been on the earth and what they've been doing all that time is an interesting topic. Guns, Germs, and Steel (Jared Diamond) tackles the relationship between resources/geography and human flourishing. What that has to do with God and whether or not He has a plan for mankind and reveals parts and/or more of that plan relative to and/or dependent on evolutionary constraints and human flourishing seems to be a separate topic. Doesn't it?

Either God has/does interact with mankind or He doesn't. As I've mentioned, I do believe in a creator God who can also be a personal God.

Regards,
MG

We know indoctrination is a real phenomenon. When a person says that nothing will change their mind about a truth claim indoctrination is complete. I have read GGAS and at first I thought it was one of the best books I have read regarding the anthropology of human societies. Then I read the critics review of the scholarship which severely impacted my view of his books. Have you done this? When you claim a testimony takes time for some people how do you know it isn't indoctrination? Have you considered that some people have varying degrees of pushback when asked to believe a narrative that has almost zero representation in reality? It becomes much easier to subscribe to the narrative when from almost day one you are smothered in precepts upon precepts yet for many people it doesn't take.

I think Alyssa was indoctrinated until she began teaching 9th grade Mormon kids. Their behaviors in class (including racism, homophobia and others) offered a glimpse into the inner workings of Mormon indoctrination tactics. It forced her to look back on her own past and how she was indoctrinated. (Especially her interaction with her dad) It broke the spell. How do you know indoctrination isn't at play for all beliefs that have spurious representation in reality?

[MG 2.0]

Indoctrination would exist one way or the other. How long humans have been on the earth and what they've been doing all that time is an interesting topic. Guns, Germs, and Steel (Jared Diamond) tackles the relationship between resources/geography and human flourishing. What that has to do with God and whether or not He has a plan for mankind and reveals parts and/or more of that plan relative to and/or dependent on evolutionary constraints and human flourishing seems to be a separate topic. Doesn't it?

Either God has/does interact with mankind or He doesn't. As I've mentioned, I do believe in a creator God who can also be a personal God.

Regards,
MG

When you claim a testimony takes time for some people how do you know it isn't indoctrination?

I'm not arguing that the LDS Church educational system doesn't use a form of indoctrination as students and members are instructed and taught in the faith and its doctrines/beliefs. Although I would say that the way critics use the word indoctrination has a different twist than that which the church and its members would view it. The difference being that members of the church are encouraged not only to learn through study and instruction, but to also combine (with that) faith, reason, and personal revelation.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Using search to respond to Analytics:

I don't see anything that runs in opposition to the teachings and doctrines...conference talks included...of Jesus Christ and His gospel. It would be others (such as yourself?) that would say that the church is "selfishly stockpiling", etc.

Regards,
MG

*bump

Analytics, did I give a satisfactory response to you earlier? Most of what our earlier interaction consisted of has been chopped off.

Regards,
MG

[Rivendale]

When you claim a testimony takes time for some people how do you know it isn't indoctrination?

I'm not arguing that the LDS Church educational system doesn't use a form of indoctrination as students and members are instructed and taught in the faith and its doctrines/beliefs. Although I would say that the way critics use the word indoctrination has a different twist than that which the church and its members would view it. The difference being that members of the church are encouraged not only to learn through study and instruction, but to also combine (with that) faith, reason, and personal revelation.

Regards,
MG

What is the ultimate goal of church indoctrination and how is that different than the colloquial meaning? Members are told over and over again that there is only one conclusion regarding the truth claims and if you don't reach that (despite using faith, reason, and personal revelation) you are doing it wrong or are aren't sincere.

[MG 2.0]

I'm not arguing that the LDS Church educational system doesn't use a form of indoctrination as students and members are instructed and taught in the faith and its doctrines/beliefs. Although I would say that the way critics use the word indoctrination has a different twist than that which the church and its members would view it. The difference being that members of the church are encouraged not only to learn through study and instruction, but to also combine (with that) faith, reason, and personal revelation.

Regards,
MG

What is the ultimate goal of church indoctrination and how is that different than the colloquial meaning? Members are told over and over again that there is only one conclusion regarding the truth claims and if you don't reach that (despite using faith, reason, and personal revelation) you are doing it wrong or are aren't sincere.

I can't argue with you there.

Regards,
MG

[Rivendale]

What is the ultimate goal of church indoctrination and how is that different than the colloquial meaning? Members are told over and over again that there is only one conclusion regarding the truth claims and if you don't reach that (despite using faith, reason, and personal revelation) you are doing it wrong or are aren't sincere.

I can't argue with you there.

Regards,
MG

Then you join a long list of indoctrinated people from the past including the people of Jonestown, Heaven's Gate, Branch Davidians, Westboro Baptists, Cargo Cult, Moonies, and the fans of the Kansas City Chiefs.

[MG 2.0]

I can't argue with you there.

Regards,
MG

Then you join a long list of indoctrinated people from the past including the people of Jonestown, Heaven's Gate, Branch Davidians, Westboro Baptists, Cargo Cult, Moonies, and the fans of the Kansas City Chiefs.

I suppose it comes down to whether or not I've developed the ability to examine, question, and deepen my own understanding beyond the exposure and teachings I've received throughout my life in the church.

Regards,
MG

[Rivendale]

Then you join a long list of indoctrinated people from the past including the people of Jonestown, Heaven's Gate, Branch Davidians, Westboro Baptists, Cargo Cult, Moonies, and the fans of the Kansas City Chiefs.

I suppose it comes down to whether or not I've developed the ability to examine, question, and deepen my own understanding beyond the exposure and teachings I've received throughout my life in the church.

Regards,
MG

So your cult is special. It is the one and only true one. That is what everyone says who is in a cult.