YouTuber Alyssa Grenfell Has Cost The Church 2.4 Million Dollars

[Mag’ladroth]

Those covenants would have to be valid in the first place. Those covenants find no basis in Judaism nor Christianity. They exist solely in the mind of Joseph Smith and his commiserators.

Covenants play a central role in both ancient Judaism and Christianity.

Regards,
MG

MG,

I want you to take two seconds with me and let’s think through your response.

• Was my statement that “There are no such things as covenants in Judaism and Christianity”? Was my statement “Covenants play no role in Christianity and Judaism”?
• The answer to both the above is emphatically “No.”
• What aspect of the LDS structure of belief cause you to strawman or deflect from salient points? My statement of above is one of validity not existence or importance.

So if validity is the criteria, not existence or importance, what then is the argument and how should you respond?

[Moksha]

So if validity is the criteria not existence or importance what then is the argument and how should you respond?

Why did white people have to wait until the 1830s to get the priesthood?

[MG 2.0]

To me it's a question of how deeply her previous testimony entered into her heart and mind. She initially had issues with gender roles, marriage expectations, and personal autonomy, as well as her own experiences dealing with shame, indoctrination, and struggles with mental health while a member. There is more to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and its theology/doctrine than these personal grievances.

Regards,
MG

To be clear, you said above that it's not your place to judge. Is this comment an example of you not judging?

Has she or has she not opened up in regards to the things which I have mentioned?

Regards,
MG

[Mag’ladroth]

So if validity is the criteria not existence or importance what then is the argument and how should you respond?

Why did white people have to wait until the 1830s to get the priesthood?

That’s a good question. I don’t believe those priesthoods are actually valid nor exist in the way the LDS church teaches. As such they couldn’t have ever been “restored”

[MG 2.0]

To me it's a question of how deeply her previous testimony entered into her heart and mind. She initially had issues with gender roles, marriage expectations, and personal autonomy, as well as her own experiences dealing with shame, indoctrination, and struggles with mental health while a member. There is more to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and its theology/doctrine than these personal grievances.

Regards,
MG

That is a gross misrepresentation of Alyssa’s journey.

I wasn’t just your average Mormon. I was Ultra Mormon. My upbringing was deeply devout—church every Sunday, whether we were home or on vacation, four years of Seminary, leadership positions in the Youth Organization, Brigham Young University (BYU) education, a full-time mission, temple marriage, and even a stint as a temple worker.

For most of my life, I truly believed. I believed so deeply that I never thought there would come a day when that belief would dissolve entirely.

The thing that really started her escape from the brainwashing she’d received since being born?

After six months of deep soul-searching, researching, and questioning, I found myself back in church, desperately hoping for something—anything—to reignite my faith. I wanted to believe. I wanted to feel what I used to feel. So I went back, sat through Sacrament Meeting, and then made my way to Relief Society.

That Sunday, the Relief Society president made an announcement that felt almost tailor-made for my final test of faith: “Today, instead of our planned lesson, we’ll be sharing testimonies about Joseph Smith.”

Joseph Smith. The one topic that had been gnawing at my conscience. By this point, I had read too much, learned too much. I knew about his secret marriages, his manipulation of young girls, his disturbing polygamous practices.

I’m guessing MG did a quick skimming an AI response and simply regurgitated brief bits that stood out to him.

Did she or did she not wrestle with her feeling in regards to bodily autonomy and the pressures of conforming to church standards regarding sexuality, dress, and behavior?

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Covenants play a central role in both ancient Judaism and Christianity.

Regards,
MG

MG,

I want you to take two seconds with me and let’s think through your response.

• Was my statement that “There are no such things as covenants in Judaism and Christianity”? Was my statement “Covenants play no role in Christianity and Judaism”?
• The answer to both the above is emphatically “No.”
• What aspect of the LDS structure of belief cause you to strawman or deflect from salient points? My statement of above is one of validity not existence or importance.

So if validity is the criteria, not existence or importance, what then is the argument and how should you respond?

Thank you for the clarification. It does come down to whether or the ordinances and covenants that are administered in the CofJCofLDS are of equal efficacy as the ordinances/covenants that were practiced or entered into in other dispensations of Judeo-Christian history. That is the crux of the matter. Did Joseph Smith receive instruction and authority from the same source as those that lived anciently? It is the belief of those who have reason to believe that the Restoration was from God, that this instruction/authority and the resulting ordinances and covenants ARE valid. Obviously, there will be a STRONG disagreement on this point between members of the church and others that don't hold to that belief.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

That is a gross misrepresentation of Alyssa’s journey.

The thing that really started her escape from the brainwashing she’d received since being born?

I’m guessing MG did a quick skimming an AI response and simply regurgitated brief bits that stood out to him.

Did she or did she not wrestle with her feeling in regards to bodily autonomy and the pressures of conforming to church standards regarding sexuality, dress, and behavior?

Regards,
MG

Feel free to quote her, like I did.

[MG 2.0]

Did she or did she not wrestle with her feeling in regards to bodily autonomy and the pressures of conforming to church standards regarding sexuality, dress, and behavior?

Regards,
MG

Feel free to quote her, like I did.

"I think [Mormonism] owns your body, especially as a woman... I had the bishop come in and give a lesson about modesty... He said when girls show even a little bit too much skin, that men and boys picture them naked... That really trained me to despise my body because purely by having a female body you're sinning."
Mormon Stories interview, "How to Leave the Mormon Church" Pt. 1 (timestamp ~22:20 to 27:00)

"It really made me feel a sense of self-repulsion because if my body will do that to a man then that means my body is a sin and that's a sin I can't control because I cannot become disembodied."
Mormon Stories interview, "How to Leave the Mormon Church" Pt. 1

"There’s no right or wrong... it’s all you, what you want to do,"
Mormonish Podcast episode discussing the book "How To Leave the Mormon Church".

In order to quote Alyssa Grenfell I used search in order to find information. I'm being up front on this. This may, obviously, be a 'trap' by IHQ in order to catch me in the act of using online search in order to answer his question. As I said earlier, I have only listened to one or two of her actual podcast episodes. Can't keep up with everything!

It is fairly well documented that many of the younger people that are leaving the LDS Church are doing so primarily for reasons having to do with societal influences and reasons of 'bodily autonomy'. If those same people spent time looking seriously into Mormon Theology and thought about the teachings of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Plan of Salvation/Exaltation rather than 'caving in' to outside influences, I think more of them would find their way IN the church rather than outside the church. This is my personal observation and opinion.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

Feel free to quote her, like I did.

"I think [Mormonism] owns your body, especially as a woman... I had the bishop come in and give a lesson about modesty... He said when girls show even a little bit too much skin, that men and boys picture them naked... That really trained me to despise my body because purely by having a female body you're sinning."
Mormon Stories interview, "How to Leave the Mormon Church" Pt. 1 (timestamp ~22:20 to 27:00)

"It really made me feel a sense of self-repulsion because if my body will do that to a man then that means my body is a sin and that's a sin I can't control because I cannot become disembodied."
Mormon Stories interview, "How to Leave the Mormon Church" Pt. 1

"There’s no right or wrong... it’s all you, what you want to do,"
Mormonish Podcast episode discussing the book "How To Leave the Mormon Church".

In order to quote Alyssa Grenfell I used search in order to find information. I'm being up front on this. This may, obviously, be a 'trap' by IHQ in order to catch me in the act of using online search in order to answer his question.

Most people would have found a quote online using Google, quoted it, and provided a link so that people could verify what was being said. Not lazy old you. Straight to AI.

[MG 2.0]

Most people would have found a quote online using Google, quoted it, and provided a link so that people could verify what was being said.

You are requesting links to Alyssa Grenfell's story. Here they are. The quotes are in the links.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSu8cD_ ... iesPodcast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bhRGnU ... ishPodcast

I notice that often when you really have no 'comeback' to what I'm saying you go off on what you think is some kind of technicality. It's rather transparent, by the way. I think the points I've made are relevant and stand on their own.

Regards,
MG