Mega Mormon Meltdown over Daily Wire Comments

[sock puppet]

I don't think treasure-digging and glass-looking are big deals for modern non-Mormons. People just assume that everyone was really superstitious in those days, so those activities seem dumb but innocent. They don't look good on Smith's CV as a candidate for prophet, but they don't necessarily make him look like a crook.

It's the polygamy and the statutory rape that make Joseph Smith look like a total slime ball to modern non-Mormons. Abusing his authority to shut down a newspaper in order to cover up his crimes also looks really bad. Those parts of Smith's life aren't just "shady". They're despicable.

There's no point in even talking about his other failings. They're no big deal in comparison.

The treasure digging/glass looking does, however, unsettle Mormons, perhaps moreso for modern Mormons than those that were Smith's contemporaries. Prosecutions for treasure digging/glass looking were sporadic rather than routine and at that, most were in the cities. It was rare in rural counties such as Chenango County where Smith was prosecuted. Prosecutions were usually the result of a public concern. Smith may have only made $14 a month doing so, but his activities in this disregard were disconcerting enough in the local community that he was charged. No matter how common that type of activity might have been, prosecutions were not. It is also interesting that he opted for "leg bail" rather than stand, face and refute the charges in court.

[Rick Grunder]

My friend for decades, Mike Quinn, liked to normalize occult treasure seeking in the broader culture of Joseph Smith's world. My impression during as many decades of immersion in that environment has been much different. After reading his Magic World View in 1987, I told him that his chapter 4 made Moroni sound like a capricious forest sprite playing tricks on Joseph Smith. Mike's reply: Maybe that was the only way Joseph could understand things. I found that approach unsatisfying.

The simplest, closest analogy I can offer is that in early nineteenth-century Northeastern American culture, occult treasure seeking was viewed generally with about the same degree of tolerance or disdain as UFO abduction stories are generally viewed today.

[Physics Guy]

It sounds to me as though the Mormons who are upset by these comments in Daily Wire just haven't heard the sad news of Smith's sex life, and still think that all that stuff is just anti-Mormon slander of their Prophet.

What's harder to understand is why this Daily Wire editor would know enough about Smith to know about the gold-digging stuff, and still think that the gold-digging stuff was worth mentioning before the polygamy. My best guess for that is that this editor really didn't know much about Smith or about Mormonism, and just happened to have heard about the gold-digging stuff, somewhere. In that case, the editor is also in for a surprise.

I'm not really surprised if most of Smith's contemporaries would have looked at him as either a con artist or a gullible loon who really thought he had magic powers. For a society to be superstitious is probably a relative thing, I figure. There are some deluded people everywhere, but I think most people in any society are pretty shrewd about practical things. They might not all go out of their ways to denounce glass-looking but if there were a chance to invest money it, I reckon most would say, "You go first." So it seems perfectly possible for Smith to have exploited the widespread superstition of his day, in the sense that the smallish minority of people who would take him seriously then was not nearly as tiny as it would be today, while at the same time for Smith to have been considered shady by most of his contemporaries.

[sock puppet]

It sounds to me as though the Mormons who are upset by these comments in Daily Wire just haven't heard the sad news of Smith's sex life, and still think that all that stuff is just anti-Mormon slander of their Prophet.

What's harder to understand is why this Daily Wire editor would know enough about Smith to know about the gold-digging stuff, and still think that the gold-digging stuff was worth mentioning before the polygamy. My best guess for that is that this editor really didn't know much about Smith or about Mormonism, and just happened to have heard about the gold-digging stuff, somewhere. In that case, the editor is also in for a surprise.

Smith claimed that the polygamy was commanded by God. Did he claim that the gold-digging was commanded by God?

[Physics Guy]

I don't think that the claim about being commanded by God helps Smith's case at all with modern non-Mormons. In fact it probably just makes Smith seem even more despicable, for brazenly declaring that his despicable behavior ought to be admired as righteous.

I wonder how long the claim that polygamy was commanded by God is even going to keep flying for Mormons. The fallback is going to have to be to acknowledge that of course it was horrible and Smith was a slime ball but to insist that a slime ball can still be a prophet because God can work through anyone. I doubt that will last, either, though, because it's just not at all consistent with the Mormon emphasis on keeping covenants and choosing the right. To make Mormonism work, polygamy has to have been commanded by God—but I predict that Mormons aren't going to be able to keep accepting that God would actually have commanded it, so the problem is just going to get worse.

[Kishkumen]

The simplest, closest analogy I can offer is that in early nineteenth-century Northeastern American culture, occult treasure seeking was viewed generally with about the same degree of tolerance or disdain as UFO abduction stories are generally viewed today.

I think that is exactly right.

[malkie]

I don't think that the claim about being commanded by God helps Smith's case at all with modern non-Mormons. In fact it probably just makes Smith seem even more despicable, for brazenly declaring that his despicable behavior ought to be admired as righteous.

I wonder how long the claim that polygamy was commanded by God is even going to keep flying for Mormons. The fallback is going to have to be to acknowledge that of course it was horrible and Smith was a slime ball but to insist that a slime ball can still be a prophet because God can work through anyone. I doubt that will last, either, though, because it's just not at all consistent with the Mormon emphasis on keeping covenants and choosing the right. To make Mormonism work, polygamy has to have been commanded by God—but I predict that Mormons aren't going to be able to keep accepting that God would actually have commanded it, so the problem is just going to get worse.

And it only compounds the problem when apologists claim that, although polygamy was illegal, it was non-sexual - just some kind of spiritual sealing - because this goes against the idea that polygamy was commanded for the purpose of "raising up seed".

The passage “in Jacob” is Jacob 2:30 in the Book of Mormon. To this the article states, “The only scriptural explanation given from the Lord for approved plural marriage is found in Jacob 2:30.” This passage reads, “For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.” The article goes on to say, “Here, the Lord gives only one reason for plural marriage, ‘to raise up seed unto me.’ This explanation leads us to an obvious question that follows in the piece: “Question: If the only purpose of polygamy was to ‘raise up seed,’ then why did Joseph not have children by his plural wives?” I think that is a fair and obvious question.

https://mrm.org/jacob-2-30