Senior free labour provider dies whilst mowing a church lawn

[I Have Questions]

When a ride on lawn mower flips over, killing the operator, that’s not an accident.

This senior missionary had been serving four months. I’m assuming that this person received the same training and was operating the same mower as many before him did.

He may well have received the same training, and be using the same mower. But this time the mower flipped, so something was different. The only way it flips is if it’s being operated outside of its safe operating parameters. These things don’t just flip over when they go over uneven ground.

It was an accident.

No it wasn’t. And I’ve already articulated why it wasn’t.

Are you privy to whether or not he was operating a new mower rather than the same one others had operated before him?

How or why is that relevant?

Do you have a picture of the particular mower he was operating?

No, and I’d be interested in seeing one. So if you have one please provide it.

Are you making another mountain out of a molehill in regards to pointing fingers and assigning blame? It wouldn’t be the first time.

What a poor choice of idiom given what we are discussing. Somebody in this case did something they should not have done. That’s a fact because of the result -the flipping of a ride on mower.

These sorts of freak accidents that happen are regrettable and unfortunate.

It’s a freak accident. It may be a rare occurrence; ride on mowers don’t just flip when being operated correctly. It’s entirely foreseeable that using a ride on mower on sloping ground is at risk of rolling if being used in a careless enough manner. Hence why some are fitted with roll bars and why people are trained how to operate them on slopes.

I feel for his wife and family as I’m sure you do.

Absolutely. She should be at home with her husband and grandkids. Presumably the Church insurance will include some death in service benefits for her. Oh wait, he was a volunteer, so she now has to rely on their own life insurance provision, etc. and I’m guessing her ongoing income now reduces.

[Dr. Shades]

I wonder: Do any retirees ever catch on to the fact that non-proselyting senior missions are scams to save the church from having to pay people what they're worth? Or does the word "mission" work like magic so none of them ever realize they're being used?

Good question. After my father retired from working for the LDS church, they immediately called him on several missions, . . . One of the callings involved staying in his own home, but it is my understanding he still had to pay a mission fee for the two of them.

HIGHWAY ROBBERY. Whoever arranged this state of affairs, does he have no shame??

[Kishkumen]

Rif....mowing a lawn young is different than doing it old....and furthermore yes John is a self proclaimed Dick.

Having watched my parents age, now that they are late 70s to early '80s, I am struck by the impression that they are now old. Up to her early 70s, my mother was in fantastic shape, being able to outwalk most people thanks to her regular dog walking. She owned energetic large dogs who liked to move fast. 68 is not necessarily, but I grant that it could be, an age of marked decrepitude. I see pictures of this guy and he looks pretty hale and hearty to me.

On the John thing, I am less inclined to think much of his claim that we are such an awful group to communicate with. Most of us on this board fit that description, and I stick around to interact with you, even when we have spats. People continue to interact with me, even when I have my moments of being really difficult and even caustic.

And mowing lawn on previously groomed grounds is nothing like roughing it in the wilds of a family home rag tag farm. No reason for that to happen other than massive mechanical failure. He was put in a precarious situation by his dedication to a church that either didn't care or didn't have the technology to inform him. That is all it is.

I mean, yes, that could be the case. You speak as though you have real insider information. I don't. I have not combed the internet for more information about this. I read the article I could easily find. If you have better information about this and feel like sharing, I am happy to read it. I have not seen the location where this mower flipped. I do not know the landscape and the obstacles on it. Could it be that he took it upon himself to mow a rough area that did not usually get manicured because he just thought the Lord's land should be beautiful? I don't know.

I mean, maybe you know, but I know I don't know, and I am not taking your word for it based on your confidence in your view. So, here is my conclusion: I don't know. I don't know that this has been investigated. I am open to verifiable information that helps me draw a conclusion. Why I marked out a couple of posts for being the best on this thread is because in these cases the posters made it clear they did not know either. Sure, they have an opinion and think it is likely the LDS Church is at fault here, but they make it clear that they don't know what happened.

That's how this should be done. We should not jump to conclusions when there is so much we do not know. Now, I grant you that the LDS Church is a super-wealthy corporation that has the ability to pay people to do this kind of work. I find it morally repugnant that the organization would put people at risk when it could just pay landscaping companies to do this work. Mowing means using machines with sharp, fast moving parts that could injure anyone using them.

So, yeah, but, at the same time, there are people out there who know this stuff and continue to do these things anyway. They do so voluntarily. I left the LDS Church partly on account of the degree to which it prioritized itself over its members. I would not choose to do what this guy did, and I would not encourage others to do what this guy did. At the same time, no one held a gun to his head and made him do this. It is not illegal for the LDS Church to have volunteers mow their lawns. Change the structures that allow these things to happen, and maybe they will end.

Having worked in landscaping and construction myself, without having special safety training classes, I tend to take it for granted that the instance of people doing this work without special training is off the charts, and so I have a harder time being outraged about this situation. Shall we make every small business put its landscaping grunts through months of safety classes? Should we insist that people over a certain age not be allowed to do manual labor, at a time when age discrimination is a real problem, and the Trump administration is on the verge of completely destroying the social safety net? Outrage is comparatively easy. Good, workable solutions are more difficult. Anger at the LDS Church won't change this.

Anyway, I am sad the guy died. I hope they can figure out what happened and change whatever can reasonably changed without causing further problems while addressing the risk issue effectively.

[Hound of Heaven]

This post is quite absurd! Certainly, the incident involving the elderly missionary was an accident; to imply anything different is sheer incompetence!

What is the source of all this animosity within you? What has happened to you that makes you seem like someone others would prefer to avoid?

This elderly man likely passed away while engaging in what he believed was working for the Lord! Surely, you recognize that accidents can occur even during missions, correct?

I honestly don’t think you will talk any sense into her.

Regards,
MG

When engaging in discussions on this board, particularly in the Terrestrial forum, I am aware that many participants view themselves as intellectuals and "professors," often adopting the title "Dr" to enhance their online presence. Through my observations, I've discovered that many individuals here are professors like Marcus, and it seems that most professors have never experienced a complete day of work in their lives. Professors are often perceived as privileged, self-indulgent, and unmotivated individuals, which is why Marcus, Kishkumen, and Gadianton, among others, consider mowing the lawn to be a hazardous task! They hire illegals to cut their grass and feel and like White saviors for paying a brown person for their services!

Any aspect of life can be seen as risky if you choose to perceive it in that manner. Exiting the bathtub poses risks and hazards. Using the toilet can pose risks and dangers if you let it. Viewing the act of traversing steps as dangerous can lead to a heightened sense of risk. To progressives, particularly those in academia who have never worked with their hands, the act of cutting grass seems to them as perilous as going into battle!

It is as straightforward as you have indicated. He had likely mowed that same lawn many times before, but perhaps he made an error or suffered a heart attack, leading to a loss of control over the mower, which then veered off course and rolled over. Regardless, he passed away in the service of the Lord in his thoughts, and that’s a commendable way to depart.

Unless you are a disillusioned and resentful progressive professor who perceives life through a predominantly negative lens, which most tend to do.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

I honestly don’t think you will talk any sense into her.

Regards,
MG

When engaging in discussions on this board, particularly in the Terrestrial forum, I am aware that many participants view themselves as intellectuals and "professors," often adopting the title "Dr" to enhance their online presence. Through my observations, I've discovered that many individuals here are professors like Marcus, and it seems that most professors have never experienced a complete day of work in their lives. Professors are often perceived as privileged, self-indulgent, and unmotivated individuals, which is why Marcus, Kishkumen, and Gadianton, among others, consider mowing the lawn to be a hazardous task! They hire illegals to cut their grass and feel and like White saviors for paying a brown person for their services!

Any aspect of life can be seen as risky if you choose to perceive it in that manner. Exiting the bathtub poses risks and hazards. Using the toilet can pose risks and dangers if you let it. Viewing the act of traversing steps as dangerous can lead to a heightened sense of risk. To progressives, particularly those in academia who have never worked with their hands, the act of cutting grass seems to them as perilous as going into battle!

It is as straightforward as you have indicated. He had likely mowed that same lawn many times before, but perhaps he made an error or suffered a heart attack, leading to a loss of control over the mower, which then veered off course and rolled over. Regardless, he passed away in the service of the Lord in his thoughts, and that’s a commendable way to depart.

Unless you are a disillusioned and resentful progressive professor who perceives life through a predominantly negative lens, which most tend to do.

HoH,

First, your profound "observations" that "professors have never experienced a complete day of work in their lives." What a breathtakingly original take. You've single-handedly solved the mystery of why universities exist. Forget lectures, presentations, research, writing, publishing and mentoring students—it's all just a clever ruse to avoid honest labor. You've exposed them for the lazy, entitled lawn-mowing-delegators they are. We all owe you a debt of gratitude.

You suggest that professors view cutting grass as "perilous as going into battle." It's a truly hilarious image, isn't it? Maybe—and this is a wild thought, so bear with me—some people hire help because they're busy, or because they have disposable income, or because they simply don't enjoy yard work. But no, you've cracked the code: it's all a part of their "White savior" complex. A completely unhinged, conclusion.

Your final thought, that a death by lawnmower is a "commendable way to depart" because the person "passed away in the service of the Lord," is, frankly, the most crazy insane thing I've read all year. You're praising a tragic accident as a divine promotion, then immediately pivoting to mock "disillusioned and resentful progressive professors" for their negative worldview. The self-awareness here is profoundly absent.

If anyone here is a "disillusioned and resentful" person viewing the world through a negative lens, it's you. You've clearly spent more time stewing in your own preconceived notions than you have actually engaging with anyone with a different perspective. So congratulations, you've earned a gold medal in mental gymnastics and you can hang it right next to your Ph.D. in making ridiculous assumptions.

[Gadianton]

I'd cut more grass by the time I was 11 then Hound has cut in his life and I still do my own yard including the pool and tree services. A person can work hard and also learn how to use tools safely, and also not be an utter illiterate philistine. Let's face it, sad as this situation is, right-wing politics likely had something to do with it. Everyone involved is likely a conservative.

It should be noted that the "young men" who voted for Trump in droves, per hound, are likely the best examples of men who have never cut grass or learned to work. Followed by Trump and his family. Hound probably believes that stain on Trump's hand is from cutting lawns.

[MG 2.0]

I'd cut more grass by the time I was 11 then Hound has cut in his life and I still do my own yard including the pool and tree services. A person can work hard and also learn how to use tools safely, and also not be an utter philistine.

I would have to agree with Hound that there does seem to be a certain degree of 'privilege' among the so-called professors on the board. An overall, "We know things that others don't" mentality. My gosh, listening to "Dr. Scratch" as the resident authority on all things DCP? And others referring to each other as "Doctor"? What??!!

Sheesh.

Simply because of where they live in and at their Ivory Tower address. Can they recognize that? I doubt it. It has become a part of their self worth and reason for being. To sit just a wee little bit above the common people in their rarified air of superiority. Would they admit it? Of course not. Pride enters in.

And then you have some folks who come across and act as if they are professors. That's where it gets even sillier.

Regards,
MG

[Gadianton]

I would have to agree with Hound that there does seem to be a certain degree of 'privilege' among the so-called professors on the board. An overall, "We know things that others don't" mentality. My gosh, listening to "Dr. Scratch" as the resident authority on all things DCP? And others referring to each other as "Doctor"? What??!!

Huh. Did you miss it when back on ZLMB, Dan Peterson and Bill Hamblin went out of their way to (joking but not joking) refer to each other as "doctor" on the board and dismiss critics like Dan Vogel or Brent Metcalfe formally in writing and also on the board for their lack of Phds, congratulate each other profusely for their Phds, and then criticize basically any and every critic who posted there as unqualified to have a conversation with them due to their lack of a graduate degree? I mean, if what you see on this board bothers you, then I assume you are really bothered by the entire enterprise of Mopologetics up until the early 2000s when it began to fall apart.

Sheesh.

That's right, in reference to Dan and his elitist gang.

Simply because of where they live in and at their Ivory Tower address. Can they recognize that? I doubt it. It has become a part of their self worth and reason for being. To sit just a wee little bit above the common people in their rarified air of superiority. Would they admit it? Of course not. Pride enters in.

You're still talking about Dan Peterson and his core friends more than you are talking about anything else.

And then you have some folks who come across and act as if they are professors. That's where it gets even sillier.

Interesting. Dan must drive you up the wall.

Regards,
MG

[sock puppet]

I'd cut more grass by the time I was 11 then Hound has cut in his life and I still do my own yard including the pool and tree services. A person can work hard and also learn how to use tools safely, and also not be an utter philistine.

I would have to agree with Hound that there does seem to be a certain degree of 'privilege' among the so-called professors on the board. An overall, "We know things that others don't" mentality. My gosh, listening to "Dr. Scratch" as the resident authority on all things DCP? And others referring to each other as "Doctor"? What??!!

Sheesh.

Simply because of where they live in and at their Ivory Tower address. Can they recognize that? I doubt it. It has become a part of their self worth and reason for being. To sit just a wee little bit above the common people in their rarified air of superiority. Would they admit it? Of course not. Pride enters in.

And then you have some folks who come across and act as if they are professors. That's where it gets even sillier.

Regards,
MG

'There does seem to be a certain degree of 'privilege' among the so-called valiant spirits in the pre-existence. An overall, "We were pre-ordained" mentality. My gosh, listening to DCP as the resident authority on...well, according to DCP himself, all things? And referring to each other as "president", "brother"? What??!!

Sheesh.

Simply because they where 'born in the covenant'. Can they recognize that? I doubt it. It has become a part of their self worth and reason for being. To sit just a wee little bit above the less valiant, those here with dark skin or other "handicaps," in their rarified air of superiority. Would they admit it? Of course not. Pride enters in.

And then you have some folks who come across and act as if they talk to God or have their 'calling and election' made sure. That's where it gets even sillier.

[Kishkumen]

When engaging in discussions on this board, particularly in the Terrestrial forum, I am aware that many participants view themselves as intellectuals and "professors," often adopting the title "Dr" to enhance their online presence. Through my observations, I've discovered that many individuals here are professors like Marcus, and it seems that most professors have never experienced a complete day of work in their lives. Professors are often perceived as privileged, self-indulgent, and unmotivated individuals, which is why Marcus, Kishkumen, and Gadianton, among others, consider mowing the lawn to be a hazardous task! They hire illegals to cut their grass and feel and like White saviors for paying a brown person for their services!

Any aspect of life can be seen as risky if you choose to perceive it in that manner. Exiting the bathtub poses risks and hazards. Using the toilet can pose risks and dangers if you let it. Viewing the act of traversing steps as dangerous can lead to a heightened sense of risk. To progressives, particularly those in academia who have never worked with their hands, the act of cutting grass seems to them as perilous as going into battle!

It is as straightforward as you have indicated. He had likely mowed that same lawn many times before, but perhaps he made an error or suffered a heart attack, leading to a loss of control over the mower, which then veered off course and rolled over. Regardless, he passed away in the service of the Lord in his thoughts, and that’s a commendable way to depart.

Unless you are a disillusioned and resentful progressive professor who perceives life through a predominantly negative lens, which most tend to do.

You are either incredibly stupid or a lazy troll. I can tell you missed my posts on this thread. Or your algorithm simply mashed up some garbage and barfed it up.