DCP’s case for Brigham Young as a moderate abolitionist

[Physics Guy]

Most of the people who are too disgusted by the moral failings of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young to believe in the Mormon Restoration are not atheists at all, but theists of some kind. Among all these people who reject the Mormon Prophets' morality, in fact, the largest single religious group is probably non-Mormon Christians, who believe not only in some kind of God but also in the Gospel of Jesus Christ—just not in its Mormon version.

[Xenophon]

A lot to unpack here, probably more than I have energy for but I'd like to highlight at least a few things.

Members of the church are a very small slice of humanity. That some would be prone to superstition and irrationality along with their fellow humans is not surprising. Here's the problem. From the outside looking in we really can't judge anyone. We can only look at what we have experienced as being 'true'. That others are sharing their 'truth' in hopes of strengthening their own faith and that of others is something that in one form or another is common to mankind.

Except that we absolutely can and should judge things, especially the actions of those we wish (or wish not) to associate with. You do it every day, hell you're doing it here... and you should. We certainly know enough of Brigham and his actions within the greater context of the historical landscape to confidently state he wasn't a thought leader on this front. Folks long before, and claiming far less inspiration, were able to land on the right side of history on this subject. I don't expect any person to be perfect, certainly I know I've held views that looking back I'm not proud of. But we get better by examining ours and others' actions and getting to the root of motivating behavior, learning from that, and attempting to not fall into the same traps.

In my opinion, Young failed miserably on slavery. I'm not saying we need to dig up his body and launch it into the sun, but it isn't unreasonable to point out that Utah could have led the charge on freedom here, and it didn't.

Reminds me of a football game. Two opposing teams. One cheering on the offense (the church) and the other team booing them and hoping for their loss. In this case, however, I think the final score is already in the books. We're simply playing it all out.

Probably worth remembering that both teams play both sides of the ball. And keeping to your analogy, you spend just as much time rooting for a team, and by extension, against another. Just as you claim the critics do.

[Tom]

We might wish that he were a little bit different, but prophets are human, and that’s the way it is.

And in fact, I’m going to argue that by the standards of his time, he was progressive. And I don’t mean that in the current sense. (I’m not meaning that as a negative, by the way.)

But he was at the vanguard of opinion in terms of his views of blacks, but he was a human.

I find these comments a bit puzzling. If, “by the standards of his time, [Young] was progressive” and “at the vanguard of opinion in terms of his views of blacks,” where does DCP place Orson Pratt or Joseph Smith III (hat tip to Kishkumen) or William Lloyd Garrison? I don’t “wish that [Young] were a little bit different.” Young rejected Pratt’s position on slavery/servitude and voting rights and committed a fatal error by instituting the priesthood ban.

Now let’s stipulate upfront that Brigham Young said some things about race and about blacks that make us cringe today.

I’ll give you just one example. [DCP then quotes Lincoln].

Clever. It’s telling that DCP doesn’t quote any of Young’s racist remarks.

[Physics Guy]

Follow the Prophet, follow the Prophet, follow the Prophet,
He’s at the vanguard of opinion.