Gene Cook-Mick Jagger airplaine conversation

[I Have Questions]

What date is the first recorded time that Cook told the anecdote?

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Wouldn’t that be awesome if Mick Jagger actually showed up for the funeral?

[Rivendale]

Tom gets that credit, but yes, I agree. Maybe Troy doesn't realize he used so many of the exact mopologetic tricks that drive people nuts--he wrote many posts explaining what he was going to do, many more posts explaining how he was doing that, then even more posts explaining how long it was taking to do that, then MORE posts explaining that he had already explained that it was taking time because he was busy!! Then multiple posts explaining what happened around the time he thought Cook had the experience, then posts explaining why he told the story the way he did and that what sounded like inconsistencies were not and here's why, plus he changed that date three times, and after someone finally suggested Jagger might have beenin Mexico on a certain date he drew a bull'seye around that date and declared it was the one he found in his Dad's journals.

After a while I started skimming his posts, so I may have missed a few more apologetics. Only Hamblin, in my experience, has written more explaining the conditions for what he would be explaining.

ETA:I can't believe I missed this classic mopologetic:

...let's go ahead and use some standard academic "empirical methods" in an attempt to set you straight. I'll assume that you are already familiar with primary and secondary sources. Let's look at testimony from those who know him best, and let's look at motive...

a.k.a. what a mopologist says when "evidence" is nonexistent.

Researching this led me to the Mormon Discussion board where a similar thread was started and DCP was participating. The similarities in their language, tactics and tone is eerily similar. It is clear that Mormonism (and probably all high demand groups) create a macabre group think that seems to emerge and manifest much like consciousness does from the brain. DCP found no reason to doubt Cook? Edit....did not see the start of this thread.

[Tom]

This first comment from Troy is a classic:

For all you doubters, this story is 100% true. This incident took place in 1985 in Mexico City while I was living there (I am his oldest son). Dad was flying first class from Mexico City to Dallas. Mick was drunk on that flight (which explains many things–ever tried to have an intellectual conversation with a drunk?) My father has never embellished anything to anybody, has never had any reason to. I am witness to every account ever told. The story was first related publicly in November 1988 at Ricks college. Need I say more??

Reminds me of the posturing about the supposed second Watson letter.

Posted from Shiz, Utah

[I Have Questions]

This first comment from Troy is a classic:

For all you doubters, this story is 100% true. This incident took place in 1985 in Mexico City while I was living there (I am his oldest son). Dad was flying first class from Mexico City to Dallas. Mick was drunk on that flight (which explains many things–ever tried to have an intellectual conversation with a drunk?) My father has never embellished anything to anybody, has never had any reason to. I am witness to every account ever told. The story was first related publicly in November 1988 at Ricks college. Need I say more??

Reminds me of the posturing about the supposed second Watson letter.

Posted from Shiz, Utah

Troy is in no position to verify the validity of the anecdote. Troy wasn’t on the plane. He’s taking his Dad’s ambiguous (didn’t even note down the date in his journal) anecdote at face value. But that doesn’t make you a witness to the event. How does Troy know, for example, that Mick was drunk? For such a landmark event, I’m surprised that Gene didn’t make a detailed entry in his journal. Second, I’m very surprised he waited six years before using the anecdote as a sort of parable about the evils of modern music.

[sock puppet]

This first comment from Troy is a classic:
Reminds me of the posturing about the supposed second Watson letter.

Posted from Shiz, Utah

Troy is in no position to verify the validity of the anecdote. Troy wasn’t on the plane. He’s taking his Dad’s ambiguous (didn’t even note down the date in his journal) anecdote at face value. But that doesn’t make you a witness to the event. How does Troy know, for example, that Mick was drunk? For such a landmark event, I’m surprised that Gene didn’t make a detailed entry in his journal. Second, I’m very surprised he waited six years before using the anecdote as a sort of parable about the evils of modern music.

Mormons are groomed to proclaim they know things that they do not, but just hope are so. To-wit: fast and testimony meetings.

[I Have Questions]

Troy is in no position to verify the validity of the anecdote. Troy wasn’t on the plane. He’s taking his Dad’s ambiguous (didn’t even note down the date in his journal) anecdote at face value. But that doesn’t make you a witness to the event. How does Troy know, for example, that Mick was drunk? For such a landmark event, I’m surprised that Gene didn’t make a detailed entry in his journal. Second, I’m very surprised he waited six years before using the anecdote as a sort of parable about the evils of modern music.

Mormons are groomed to proclaim they know things that they do not, but just hope are so. To-wit: fast and testimony meetings.

Yes. When a Mormon says they “know” they really mean “I don’t want to admit I might be wrong”.

[I Have Questions]

Wouldn’t that be awesome if Mick Jagger actually showed up for the funeral?

…drunk.

The run-in with one of The Lord’s emissaries didn’t seem to register as noteworthy for Mick. He certainly hasn’t included it in any memoir or biography.

[sock puppet]

Wouldn’t that be awesome if Mick Jagger actually showed up for the funeral?

…drunk.

The run-in with one of The Lord’s emissaries didn’t seem to register as noteworthy for Mick. He certainly hasn’t included it in any memoir or biography.

Well, the absence from memoirs and bio's might be due to the obvious--the encounter never happened.

[sock puppet]

I am troubled by the tale told by Elder Gene R. Cook (now, GA emeritus) about a conversation on an airplane with Mick Jagger. Most of the time when stories of this type are told, the name of the person who acts in an unflattering way is withheld. A category description is, instead, used. For example, "rock star" rather than "Mick Jagger." Since Elder Cook used Mick Jagger's name, if it is untrue Elder Cook has borne false witness against another human being. This is venal in a way that Paul H. Dunn's made-up stories were not, as I cannot think of one where Dunn named someone specifically in a disparaging way.

It is not merely an innocent exaggeration to make the point that rock music can have a deleterious effect on the listener. Here, another human being is implicated by name, and attributed with saying his artistic work is 'designed to drive the kids to sex.'

For these reasons, it seems that verification that Jagger was on the flight would be of interest to earnest truth seekers, as many of the posters here. That verification could begin by determining the exact date of the flight that Elder Cook mentions that he sat by Jagger, and then looking for any published mentions of where Jagger was on that date. I am wondering if anyone that reads this board and lives in Utah has taken the time to check Elder Cook's journals to find out the date of the flight from Mexico City to Dallas or Houston. (I do not live in Utah.)

If Gene Cook's tall tale is true, doesn't it show that rock music is in line with and promoting God's objectives? After all, God created us with libidos and desires so that we'd have sex and multiply and replenish the earth. If the tall tale were true, it proves Jagger is promoting God's purposes. I'm sure MG 2.0 would heartily agree. Maybe Mick Jagger should become the next apostle.