Charlie Kirk Miracle

[Moksha]

Ceeboo seems to like Israel much more than the United States. It's a perfect fit.

Has Ceeboo been snuffing Epsteinophen brisket?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Speaking of Kirk’s funeral. I really wish people who attended big events would clean up after themselves:



That was outside the venue - note the flag tossed into the bushes. Shameful.

Also, irony alert:



One would think one ought not wear a t-shirt like that to the funeral of the guy who wasn’t bulletproof.

Inb4 that whatbaout this or that progressive event that trashed the area. Yes. They do it, too. A lot. And it’s shameful, and in my opinion, somewhat more hypocritical because environmentalism is a thing that’s usually associated with the Left.

- Doc

[I Have Questions]

As an American, I cast my vote based on who I think will do the best job for the country. In the last election, it wasn't even a close call in my opinion. As it turns out, many people happened to agree with me. And, as far as future elections go (unless there are radical changes with the modern democratic party) these elections won't even be close. The entire country is turning red, and it has very little to do with Trump - or allegiance to Trump. It has everything to do with the option.

How’s that working out?

[Chap]

As an American, I cast my vote based on who I think will do the best job for the country. In the last election, it wasn't even a close call in my opinion. As it turns out, many people happened to agree with me. And, as far as future elections go (unless there are radical changes with the modern democratic party) these elections won't even be close. The entire country is turning red, and it has very little to do with Trump - or allegiance to Trump. It has everything to do with the option.

How’s that working out?

So far as the evidence that I have seen goes, Trump is not doing very well at all with the US voting public. Thus an article in the Washington Post says:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 6bef8c220c

At the eight-month mark of President Donald Trump’s second presidential term, The Washington Post fielded a survey with Ipsos measuring Americans’ opinions of the presidency and found a public mostly critical of his handling of crime, tariffs, immigration and other top issues.
The poll also finds that over half of Americans, 53 percent, oppose Trump’s actions since January, and 41 percent support them.

And that is followed up by a lot of figures detailing the situation he faces. Of course Trump's reaction to such news is basically to threaten networks and other media outlets give him what he calls 'negative coverage' by reporting facts such as these, is to threaten the said outlets with closure, despite the fact that the First Amendment that is part of the constitution he swore to protect.

But that's our Donald for you! Don'tcha just love that guy?

[Kishkumen]

What about Biden? Harris? If I voted for Biden or Harris, am I following them also? Or is this "serving two masters" bit only about Trump?

What about George Bush or Ronald Reagan?

Come on, Ceeboo. This whataboutism is stupid. This is the first thing people jump to when they have nothing substantive to say.

Trump is the first president to have a veritable cult of personality in which his followers--and they are followers rather than simply voters--slot him into their conspiracy theories, prophecies, and end-times predictions. Through Project 2025, he is giving his lunatic fringe theocratic squad the ability to transform the Executive Branch out of recognition.

Whataboutism just does not work anymore. Trump is a handy tool of a right-wing Christian nationalist agenda that is pretty much out in the open and entirely heretical.

Easy. There aren't two allegiances.

My Lord is Christ - I try (fail often) to follow him. I don't follow any American politician. As an American, I cast my vote based on who I think will do the best job for the country. In the last election, it wasn't even a close call in my opinion. As it turns out, many people happened to agree with me. And, as far as future elections go (unless there are radical changes with the modern democratic party) these elections won't even be close. The entire country is turning red, and it has very little to do with Trump - or allegiance to Trump. It has everything to do with the option.

There are roughly 6 million more registered Democrats than Republicans. And there are a lot more registered independents than either of them. The block that is growing is my fellow independents. I became an independent ca. 2004, so I am happy to welcome everyone who is truly enlightened to my camp.

But, more seriously, this argument by popularity is not exactly Christian either. A million Elvis fans can't be wrong? Not the standard of truth.

But, I get it, you are in the MAGA media bubble, which tells itself all kinds of fairytales. Anything to stay on Team MAGA, eh? ("There's a huge RED WAVE!!!")

I won't dispute that you believe you do not have two allegiances. I expected as much. But the fruits of what you have voted for are pretty obvious. Trump is a truly awful person who does awful things in the public square pretty much all the time. Anyone who tries to reconcile that with his voters' claims to be "Christian" will be met with the appropriate skepticism. You all definitely have two masters, say or believe whatever you will.

Would you say that politicians on the left have any hatred? How about the citizens who happen to be on the ideological left, any hatred there? How about this very discussion board? See any hatred being expressed.

Again, I would love to see you able to break out of the polarized, what-about mindset. It is tired, dumb, and it doesn't work. You are basically sticking your fingers in your ears and making noises. I have not seen a great deal of frankly stated public hatred aside from a few lunatics such as Trump, Nancy Mace, and some others. Most people have enough character, mental stability, class, maturity, and intelligence not to go around vomiting up hateful rhetoric.

I honestly don't think most Republicans are evil. What they are is cowards. Unfortunately, their cowardice is enabling a genuinely evil man to destroy the country, i.e., ruin the democratic republic that it was.

LOL!

Political independent. So registered since 2004ish. I am not sure exactly why that is funny to you. Are you a registered independent, too, Ceeboo?

Anyone else evil, or just Trump?

Putin. Sure, there are many others. Not sure what pertinence this has. You can deflect all you like, but my question is why so many so-called Christians vote for, support, and follow Trump, participate in his cult of personality, take in his lies, ignore his wicked behavior, stand by while he destroys our democratic republic. For so long I had heard from Christians how God had founded this nation through the Founders, and how this whole shebang was Christian. Now, I sit and watch Trump and MAGA dismantle the country, and I have to wonder why these Christians ever claimed to love something they are helping to dismantle for the kinds of characters the Bible warns about in both testaments.

Can you give me the names of a few politicians on the left that you believe display Christian principles?

Plenty of them seek to look out for the poor. That is consistent with Christian principles. Plenty of them seek to help the stranger, as is consistent with Christian and more generally Biblical principles. I mean, it doesn't take much to do better than Trump. My guess is that most politicians in both parties do a better job at displaying Christian behavior than Trump and the other loonies who spout hatred and steal food from the mouths of starving people. If I were to identify the chief failure of both sides in our time, it would be cowardice. Cowardice is enabling genuine evil in the form of MAGA and MAHA.

Anti-Mormon swipe? Never even crossed my mind.

Sure, ceeboo. OK.

This is your opinion, it's not mine.

LOL! Well, there you go! If it is not already your opinion, you should just brush it off!

It is not just my opinion, ceeboo. It is an opinion informed by reading about the anti-Christ in the New Testament. It is also an opinion shared by a number of non-MAGA Christians.

Who are you following and are you judging them as well?

In my daily life, I do my best to follow the example of Christ. I fail a lot, but Christ is my standard.

I wasn't speaking about Jesus' message and ministry; I was speaking about your proclamation that people will be turned away from Christ by Kirk's funeral - you have it entirely bass-ackward in my opinion.

Well, that would be your weird, narrow reading of a much larger point. That's on you.

[Chap]

[...]

Can you give me the names of a few politicians on the left that you believe display Christian principles?

Plenty of them seek to look out for the poor. That is consistent with Christian principles. Plenty of them seek to help the stranger, as is consistent with Christian and more generally Biblical principles. I mean, it doesn't take much to do better than Trump. My guess is that most politicians in both parties do a better job at displaying Christian behavior than Trump and the other loonies who spout hatred and steal food from the mouths of starving people. If I were to identify the chief failure of both sides in our time, it would be cowardice. Cowardice is enabling genuine evil in the form of MAGA and MAHA.

I'm a little puzzled by the fact that in the USA today there are a lot of people who seem to conflate "being a good person who acts in a good way" and "acting in a way that displays Christian principles."

In the great ages of faith in the premodern west, Christian theologians did not deny that non-Christians might be good people who acted in a good way. But because they had not been baptised, there was no certainty that the redeeming power of the Christ who had been crucified, dead and buried could have operated on them. Therefore they were, always subject to God's extraordinary and unknowable mercy, damned. Thus, in the first book "Inferno" of his great Divine Comedy poem, Dante represented the virtuous (but unbaptised) pagans as existing in a peaceful place that lay in the underworld certainly, but where the only punishment was the knowledge one was excluded from the presence of God. Dante did not know about Confucius, but had he known he would probably have put him there, together with Socrates, Plato, and Virgil who acted as his guide right up to the gates of Purgatory where (if I recall correctly) he could not go. (Purgatory is not hell: it is a place where those destined for Paradise go to be cleansed before being admitted to eternal blessedness)

So when did this idea get about that "good person" = "Christian"? It's not only theologically naïve, it also encourages suspicion and hatred of people of other religions or none, who, it seems to be assumed, cannot be good because they are not Christian.

[Kishkumen]

I'm a little puzzled by the fact that in the USA today there are a lot of people who seem to conflate "being a good person who acts in a good way" and "acting in a way that displays Christian principles."

In the great ages of faith in the premodern west, Christian theologians did not deny that non-Christians might be good people who acted in a good way. But because they had not been baptised, there was no certainty that the redeeming power of the Christ who had been crucified, dead and buried could have operated on them. Therefore they were, always subject to God's extraordinary and unknowable mercy, damned. Thus, in the first book "Inferno" of his great Divine Comedy poem, Dante represented the virtuous (but unbaptised) pagans as existing in a peaceful place that lay in the underworld certainly, but where the only punishment was the knowledge one was excluded from the presence of God. Dante did not know about Confucius, but had he known he would probably have put him there, together with Socrates, Plato, and Virgil who acted as his guide right up to the gates of Purgatory where (if I recall correctly) he could not go. (Purgatory is not hell: it is a place where those destined for Paradise go to be cleansed before being admitted to eternal blessedness)

So when did this idea get about that "good person" = "Christian"? It's not only theologically naïve, it also encourages suspicion and hatred of people of other religions or none, who, it seems to be assumed, cannot be good because they are not Christian.

I take your point, Chap. I don't think that being a good person is coterminous with being Christian. I was speaking in terms of a discussion of Christian behavior with Ceeboo, so that is why it unfolded as it did. We could also have a separate discussion of good person versus bad person without reference to Christianity, to be sure.

[Some Schmo]

How tiny of a self-stroking bubble do you have to be in to regard the left as evil and the right as righteous? Seriously? How damned willfully ignorant do you need to be? Talk about projection.

Unreal.

[canpakes]

Can you give me the names of a few politicians on the left that you believe display Christian principles?

Plenty of them seek to look out for the poor. That is consistent with Christian principles. Plenty of them seek to help the stranger, as is consistent with Christian and more generally Biblical principles. I mean, it doesn't take much to do better than Trump. My guess is that most politicians in both parties do a better job at displaying Christian behavior than Trump and the other loonies who spout hatred and steal food from the mouths of starving people. If I were to identify the chief failure of both sides in our time, it would be cowardice. Cowardice is enabling genuine evil in the form of MAGA and MAHA.

I don’t think I’ve ever run across any supporter of Trump who could point out a Christian principle that The Donald displays. The question would just elicit a change in subject or a rant about ‘evil progressives’.

[Some Schmo]

I don’t think I’ve ever run across any supporter of Trump who could point out a Christian principle that The Donald displays. The question would just elicit a change in subject or a rant about ‘evil progressives’.

And it's not only that he doesn't display Christian values; he actively brags about doing the opposite. He is as proudly anti-Christ and anti-Christian as anyone I've ever seen in the public sphere.

Pretending to care about Christian values while giving a guy a ton of power who is anti-Christian-values in both word and policy, well... not very Christian. Or, maybe that's what Christian means now. It's ironic.

Disney stock may be down, but the Christian brand is taking a massive beating these days. Christians who actually act like they care what Bible Jesus said want to avoid a theocracy, but they're a minority in America now.