Mass Shooting at Mormon Church In Michigan

[canpakes]

Then you can precisely define it, and its limits.

Please proceed.

Here we go. The take no stand know it all doesn't have a position.

Noted that your first comment on this is evasion.

Want to try again? It should be very simple, based on your earlier comments.

[Res Ipsa]

ceeboo, if ever you make any sense of this, let me know.

Letting you know.

You are witnessing a refusal (intentional or not) - a distraction (intentional or not) - a potential option (intentional or not) - a cover (intentional or not) - excuses (intentional or not) -------------- To see what is plainly in sight. Evil.

My thoughts are 100% with the many victims of this horrific evil and I make no apologies for the dehumanized victim cold blooded murderer.

I’m going to come at this a different way. I understand what you are saying because I used to see the world through the same eyes. But you are never going to understand what I am saying unless you take a little peek into my world.

I could mirror your response by replacing your words with things like “denial” or “delusion.” But where would that get us? You believe that God and Satan are real. That’s fine. Full stop. I do not believe that God or Satan are real. Is that fine?

I see a horrific tragedy. None of it should have happened. The dead should be alive. The survivors shouldn’t have through a horrific experience that will likely scar them for life. And for all that to have been true, the murderer would still be alive and not a murderer.

Not only that, this senseless, violent murder hurts me because those are my fellow sentient bits of carbon. They are made out of the same stuff I am made out of. They share the same basic hardware. They feel the same pain. And joy. And love. And sorrow. We look at the same stars and feel the same sense of awe and wonder. And to dismiss anyone as less than human is to take a knife to our shared humanity. I think it’s arrogant to look at the shooter and not think (figuratively) there but for the grace of God go I. I have no idea what leads someone to shoot adults and children worshipping in a church. And that means that I am not immune from whatever led that man to perform those genius acts.

I can’t refuse to see something that does not exist. My sense of shared humanity is not a distraction — it’s the core of who I am. My compassion for my fellow bits of carbon isn’t an excuse for anything — it’s what makes me human.

Compassion isn’t a zero sum game. Compassion for person A doesn’t diminish the compassion for person B. But I feel that withholding that compassion based on an arbitrary classification of fellow bits of sentient carbon diminishes my humanity.

But I also have a strong sense of justice. What he did was inexcusable. Has he lived, he should have been prosecuted just as any person who takes the life as another should. And, while I have some strong reservations about the death penalty, I think we are justified as a society to require him to forfeit his life for his actions. I say that, not with joy or anger or hatred, but out of sorrow for the harm one of my sentient bits of carbon did to my other fellow sentient bits of carbon. (I’m leaving competency defenses aside, as I don’t see much evidence of legal insanity.)

And my compassion has nothing to do with morality. I have no trouble condemning his actions as immoral, bad, wrong, heinous, or evil. I can both condemn the actions and recognize that, had the shooter’s world been a little different, the tragedy would never had happened.

[Whiskey]

Letting you know.

You are witnessing a refusal (intentional or not) - a distraction (intentional or not) - a potential option (intentional or not) - a cover (intentional or not) - excuses (intentional or not) -------------- To see what is plainly in sight. Evil.

My thoughts are 100% with the many victims of this horrific evil and I make no apologies for the dehumanized victim cold blooded murderer.

I’m going to come at this a different way. I understand what you are saying because I used to see the world through the same eyes. But you are never going to understand what I am saying unless you take a little peek into my world.

I could mirror your response by replacing your words with things like “denial” or “delusion.” But where would that get us? You believe that God and Satan are real. That’s fine. Full stop. I do not believe that God or Satan are real. Is that fine?

I see a horrific tragedy. None of it should have happened. The dead should be alive. The survivors shouldn’t have through a horrific experience that will likely scar them for life. And for all that to have been true, the murderer would still be alive and not a murderer.

Not only that, this senseless, violent murder hurts me because those are my fellow sentient bits of carbon. They are made out of the same stuff I am made out of. They share the same basic hardware. They feel the same pain. And joy. And love. And sorrow. We look at the same stars and feel the same sense of awe and wonder. And to dismiss anyone as less than human is to take a knife to our shared humanity. I think it’s arrogant to look at the shooter and not think (figuratively) there but for the grace of God go I. I have no idea what leads someone to shoot adults and children worshipping in a church. And that means that I am not immune from whatever led that man to perform those genius acts.

I can’t refuse to see something that does not exist. My sense of shared humanity is not a distraction — it’s the core of who I am. My compassion for my fellow bits of carbon isn’t an excuse for anything — it’s what makes me human.

Compassion isn’t a zero sum game. Compassion for person A doesn’t diminish the compassion for person B. But I feel that withholding that compassion based on an arbitrary classification of fellow bits of sentient carbon diminishes my humanity.

But I also have a strong sense of justice. What he did was inexcusable. Has he lived, he should have been prosecuted just as any person who takes the life as another should. And, while I have some strong reservations about the death penalty, I think we are justified as a society to require him to forfeit his life for his actions. I say that, not with joy or anger or hatred, but out of sorrow for the harm one of my sentient bits of carbon did to my other fellow sentient bits of carbon. (I’m leaving competency defenses aside, as I don’t see much evidence of legal insanity.)

And my compassion has nothing to do with morality. I have no trouble condemning his actions as immoral, bad, wrong, heinous, or evil. I can both condemn the actions and recognize that, had the shooter’s world been a little different, the tragedy would never had happened.

La di freakin da.

The shooter was a lot like you and pancakes from the looks of it.

“People lack accountability, then say, ‘You could've talked to me.’ No, I couldn't. You don't listen. You deflect. You twist everything into an attack and then play the victim. Conversations with you aren't healing-they're exhausting, draining, and emotionally suffocating. Every time I try to speak, it feels like walking through a maze of blame where my words are used against me, my intentions questioned, and my emotions invalidated. I end up questioning myself, doubting my own perceptions, because nothing I say lands without being turned into some justification for your behavior.”

“I've spent too long bending, softening, and framing my words to fit the narrative you want, hoping for connection, for understanding, for a simple acknowledgment of reality. But it never comes. Instead, there's defensiveness, twisting, and manipulation, all while you act like the wronged party. And honestly, I can't-and I won't-invest my emotional energy in someone who consistently prioritizes winning over understanding, control over empathy, and excuses over responsibility.”

I am sure you don't believe me. And you don't trust me. But I am telling ya, that is what you got going on here too. Same same. It was hopeless AF for her. She clearly gave up. And for you, the one communicating and behaving exactly the way she is describing, to then say ooooohhhh ooooohhhh but what if and what if because he deserved more. Nope. Evil. And his BS drove the help away, even the people that loved him.

Yeah, maybe something could have been different. No doubt. And this evil POS killed people.

[Whiskey]

Go on defending those that have and will turn on you. like a dog returning to its vomit.

Sad.

Huh? Who is defending who? What?

[canpakes]

The shooter was a lot like you and pancakes from the looks of it.

“People lack accountability, then say, ‘You could've talked to me.’ No, I couldn't. You don't listen. You deflect. You twist everything into an attack and then play the victim. Conversations with you aren't healing-they're exhausting, draining, and emotionally suffocating. Every time I try to speak, it feels like walking through a maze of blame where my words are used against me, my intentions questioned, and my emotions invalidated. I end up questioning myself, doubting my own perceptions, because nothing I say lands without being turned into some justification for your behavior.”

“I've spent too long bending, softening, and framing my words to fit the narrative you want, hoping for connection, for understanding, for a simple acknowledgment of reality. But it never comes. Instead, there's defensiveness, twisting, and manipulation, all while you act like the wronged party. And honestly, I can't-and I won't-invest my emotional energy in someone who consistently prioritizes winning over understanding, control over empathy, and excuses over responsibility.”

I am sure you don't believe me.

Probably nobody will.

You can search through more than 9000 posts of mine and not find one of them where I blame my behavior on someone else.

You’ve worked through four separate major accounts here (and numerous minor socks) where you have griped through every one of them that everyone else is responsible for your reactions and aggression.

That history isn’t going to go away simply because you pretend that it doesn’t exist.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=156715

[Whiskey]

The shooter was a lot like you and pancakes from the looks of it.



I am sure you don't believe me.

Probably nobody will.

You can search through more than 9000 posts of mine and not find one of them where I blame my behavior on someone else.

You’ve worked through four separate major accounts here (and numerous minor socks) where you have griped through every one of them that everyone else is responsible for your reactions and aggression.

That history isn’t going to go away simply because you pretend that it doesn’t exist.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=156715

Oh you poor thing.

[canpakes]

Oh you poor thing.

I like “Bless your soul”. It’s got that nice Southern ring. : D

Anyhow, post your findings when you find them.

[Whiskey]

Oh you poor thing.

I like “Bless your soul”. It’s got that nice Southern ring. : D

Anyhow, post your findings when you find them.

Why? Because you made some crap up?

[ceeboo]

Letting you know.

You are witnessing a refusal (intentional or not) - a distraction (intentional or not) - a potential option (intentional or not) - a cover (intentional or not) - excuses (intentional or not) -------------- To see what is plainly in sight. Evil.

My thoughts are 100% with the many victims of this horrific evil and I make no apologies for the dehumanized victim cold blooded murderer.

I’m going to come at this a different way. I understand what you are saying because I used to see the world through the same eyes. But you are never going to understand what I am saying unless you take a little peek into my world.

Do you know how long I have been participating on this board? You don't think I have ever taken a peek into your world? I would suggest that I have done far more than peeking into your world- I have walked through your front door, ate complete meals at your table, and slept in your bed (I do appreciate being welcomed in by you and others)

I could mirror your response by replacing your words with things like “denial” or “delusion.”

You could (some have) but at the end of the day we are still left with all of us looking at what actually happened - the stark reality of it (not imagining all of the things that could have happened) - And if we all refrain from using our imaginations and remain in reality, we all must come to terms with what we witnessed. In my opinion, what we saw was pure evil, and there isn't another option.

I do not believe that God or Satan are real. Is that fine?

Of course.

I see a horrific tragedy.

I dod not see a horrific tragedy. A horrific tragedy would be something like a family getting into a fatal car accident. What we saw here was evil. A targeted attack, fueled by hatred, expressing evil. Full stop.

[Hound of Heaven]

ceeboo, if ever you make any sense of this, let me know.

Letting you know.

You are witnessing a refusal (intentional or not) - a distraction (intentional or not) - a potential option (intentional or not) - a cover (intentional or not) - excuses (intentional or not) -------------- To see what is plainly in sight. Evil.

My thoughts are 100% with the many victims of this horrific evil and I make no apologies for the dehumanized victim cold blooded murderer.

Ceeboo, I recognize that as a Christian, you strive to see the good in others in hopes of guiding them back to faith, and I commend you for that. However, the animosity that resided within the shooter at the Mormon church mirrors the same hatred inside several members of this board, including Can'tpakes, Captain Progressive, GadiSCAMton, Marcus the Carcass, DrCamnPP, and a few others. These individuals harbor hatred towards you due to your Christian beliefs and particularly because of your conservative views.

When a Mormon departs from the church, there are numerous paths an ex-Mormon can take to shape their life after leaving the church. The individuals I mentioned have opted to fill the emptiness left by their departure from Mormonism with hatred p, attributing all their life's misfortunes to their Mormon upbringing and experiences. They harbor disdain for their family members, viewing them as ignorant due to their adherence to a religion that these individuals consider to be pure evil. I’m not exaggerating here, Ceeboo. I’m not trying to upset these individuals by labeling them as hateful. I’m simply stating the facts, some anti Mormons, particularly those who adopt progressivism after leaving the church, seem to operate from a place of genuine hatred post-exit.

Although the person who killed Mormons shared the same hatred as those I mentioned earlier, the response from the Mormons in the Michigan community where the shooting occurred will be one of support and compassion for the wife and children of the shooter. They will welcome her warmly in an effort to help her realize that she remains a valued member of the community. They will act this way for the same reason that Charlie Kirk's wife forgave the assassin who took her husband's life, as both Mormons and Christians possess hearts filled with peace, love, and forgiveness.

I’m not sure if you saw, but yesterday Can'tpakes relocated my post from this thread to the Telestial forum because he disagreed with my perspective on how hatred, fear, and resentment are significant aspects of the exmormon community. I'm glad my post was brought back to this thread because I spoke honestly, I wasn't being deceitful, nor was I attempting to hurt anyone's feelings just for the sake of being unkind on the board. The hatred I speak of is genuine, Ceeboo.

Ok, I must say, Ceeboo, my primary concern with Christianity is that many Christians, including yourself, tend to delay taking decisive action to defend their faith and belief in Christ. It often seems as though there is an expectation that those who challenge Christianity will suddenly have a change of heart and embrace Christians as equals. I understand the reasons behind the actions of Christians, but I want to convey to you, Ceeboo, that the individuals I referred to would rejoice if Christianity were to be completely eradicated from the earth. If there is ever a progressive dream that progressives could envision, it would be to eliminate Christianity, Western civilization, and the Jewish race from existence.

To finish up, Ceeboo watch how the leaders of the Mormon church manage this situation! They will support the community and provide assistance to anyone in need, including the shooter's wife, her children, and her extended family. The church will welcome everyone without exception. Church leaders will provide messages focused on healing, peacemaking, and offering comfort to all those affected, not just the direct victims. They will pray and extend forgiveness to the shooter, much like Erika Kirk forgave the person who took her husband's life. You will witness the response of individuals filled with love when faced with a genuine tragedy, and how they unite to progress in a compassionate and harmonious way. You won't witness violent riots or mass protests where demonstrators are shouting at the police, labeling them as Nazis or Fascists. The Mormons will not take to the streets to set fire to buildings or hurl rocks through windows in demonstrations. The Mormons possess hearts brimming with love, in contrast to the animosity often found among many ex-Mormons and progressives.

The evil you speak of is real! It's fueled by hatred and it can be found in every person alive here on earth. The key to a happy life is learning how to control your anger and not allowing hatred to become the dominant emotion that controls how one views the world around them. I want to thank you for being a Christian and for having a heart filled with love and kindness.