They Will Always Hate You. Always.

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Whiskey
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Re: They Will Always Hate You. Always

Post by Whiskey »

Hound of Heaven wrote:
Tue Sep 30, 2025 5:05 pm
Mormonism didn't emerge as a branch of Christianity, it was a direct refutation of it.
Or, Mormonism could be Arena Football but true.
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MG 2.0
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Re: They Will Always Hate You. Always

Post by MG 2.0 »

Physics Guy wrote:
Tue Sep 30, 2025 4:50 pm
And indeed people have been hijacking Christianity since before the New Testament was written.
I’ll step in and give a plug for the need of a complete and unadulterated restoration of the fullness of lost Christianity. That’s what them youngins’ are doing out and about throughout the world. And that’s what the rest of Christianity is arguing/fighting against to some degree or another.

There are a few exceptions. This pastor and his wife are doing it right:

https://youtube.com/@hellosaints?si=Gh-2KNw3qc6zRK4y

Regards,
MG
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Physics Guy
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Re: They Will Always Hate You. Always

Post by Physics Guy »

Falsely claiming to restore authentic Christianity may be the most authentically Christian aspect of Mormonism.
I was a teenager before it was cool.
MG 2.0
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Re: They Will Always Hate You. Always

Post by MG 2.0 »

Physics Guy wrote:
Tue Sep 30, 2025 6:06 pm
Falsely claiming to restore authentic Christianity may be the most authentically Christian aspect of Mormonism.
It might be more fitting to say that claiming to restore authentic Christianity, rightly or wrongly, may be the most authentically Christian aspect of Mormonism. To label the claim "false" upfront is an assertion that shuts down nuanced complexity the rest of the sentence might allude to. The truth is, there may be a genuine spiritual motivation behind the restoration claim.

To discard that at first blush seems to muddy the waters and set up a false dilemma.

Regards,
MG
I Have Questions
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Re: They Will Always Hate You. Always

Post by I Have Questions »

Physics Guy wrote:
Tue Sep 30, 2025 6:06 pm
Falsely claiming to restore authentic Christianity may be the most authentically Christian aspect of Mormonism.
Yes. It’s also quite an arrogant claim. They’ve softened how they articulate that in recent years. But it’s still the core belief.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Kishkumen
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Re: They Will Always Hate You. Always

Post by Kishkumen »

Hound of Heaven wrote:
Tue Sep 30, 2025 5:05 pm
Mormonism didn't emerge as a branch of Christianity, it was a direct refutation of it.
Wrong!

OK, you fundamentally misunderstand Mormonism. As that is the case, you really have nothing of value to say on the topic.

Your ignorance and bigotry is clear.
Here's a quote from Joseph Smith. Does this quote sound like Joseph Smith considered Christianity part of the everlasting gospel?

"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world."

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 270
Cherry-picking quotes is a tired tactic for people too stupid, too lazy, or too bigoted to try to understand a topic.
"He disturbs the laws of his country, he forces himself upon women, and he puts men to death without trial.” ~Otanes on the monarch, Herodotus Histories 3.80.
Morley
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Re: They Will Always Hate You. Always

Post by Morley »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Sep 30, 2025 10:04 pm
To discard that at first blush seems to muddy the waters and set up a false dilemma.
MG, it doesn't look like you know what "at first blush" means. Commenting on Mormonism two hundred years later--a religion that was founded, grew up, and developed in the era of the printing press--is not discarding "at first blush."
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canpakes
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Re: They Will Always Hate You. Always

Post by canpakes »

Hound of Heaven wrote:
Tue Sep 30, 2025 5:05 pm
Kishkumen wrote:
Tue Sep 30, 2025 4:04 pm
They believe that the fullness of the gospel and the priesthood was taken from the earth, but that is neither here nor there. The question is not whether they view their own form of Christianity to be the best--most Christians do--the question is whether they are rightly recognized by others as being Christian at all.
Mormonism didn't emerge as a branch of Christianity, it was a direct refutation of it. Did Joseph Smith teach that all existing churches were corrupt and under Satan's influence, Kishkumen? If he did, is that not a rejection of Christianity?

Here's a quote from Joseph Smith. Does this quote sound like Joseph Smith considered Christianity part of the everlasting gospel?

"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world."

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 270
Why is rejection of a church the equal of rejecting Christianity, in your opinion?
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Hound of Heaven
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Re: They Will Always Hate You. Always

Post by Hound of Heaven »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Sep 30, 2025 10:04 pm
that claiming to restore authentic Christianity, rightly or wrongly, may be the most authentically Christian aspect of Mormonism
In my view, MG2.0, your argument regarding Mormonism's attempt to restore Christianity is quite similar to the perspective Muslims hold towards Christianity. Islam asserts that the original message of Jesus was pure and divinely inspired, however, it has been altered over time by human interpretations, theological innovations. For nearly two centuries, Mormon leaders have characterized Christianity in a manner similar to that of Muslims. As a corrupt interpretation of authentic Christianity!

Do you think the restored gospel aims to bring creedle Christianity back to its original state? If that’s the case, why do Mormons seem so focused on being perceived as part of an apostate version of Christianity?
drumdude
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Re: They Will Always Hate You. Always

Post by drumdude »

To tie in more strongly with the Islam parallel:
The Prophet inculcates the notion, and it is believed by every true Mormon, that Smith's prophecies are superior to the laws of the land. I have heard the Prophet say that he would yet tread down his enemies, and walk over their dead bodies; and if he was not let alone, he would be a second Mohammed to this generation, and that he would make it one gore of blood from the Rocky mountains to the Atlantic ocean; that like Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was, 'the Alcoran or the Sword.' So should it be eventually with us, 'Joseph Smith or the Sword.'
See History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 167
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