Clarification so as to be clear.

[Marcus]

Before this thread drops off onto the second page I feel it important to mention just one more time that (and the thread explains why in detail) there are some posters I have on ignore and will not be responding to. I know that there is a price to pay for holding true to this decision.

Be that as it may, it is what it is. It makes my participation a LOT less hectic and time consuming. I've enjoyed being able to simply respond to some posters without going round and round in circles without accomplishing anything besides 'bashing'. My recent posting of Jared Halverson's presentation on D&C 127:2 made it even more clear to me that this is not the course I want to take and/or that I feel comfortable with at this point.

It's a breath of fresh air to not get entangled in some of the crap that's gone on in the past.

This will hopefully be the last time I waste people's time reviewing/saying this.

Regards,
MG

If this means the mentalgymnast has finally decided to stop his persistent, passive aggressive judgmental comments about people who believe differently than him, this would be a welcome change.

[Marcus]

...On the other hand, I was apparently quite successful is not exposing my own doubts - enough that I can say that I'm completely unimpressed by the so-called "power of discernment" that church leaders are supposed to be endowed with. I've received shocked responses to my outing myself as no longer a believer, and to having a messy marriage breakup. People saw my ex-wife and I as almost the ideal couple until suddenly and very publicly we were not. At times these experiences have left me wondering if I've been a total failure and misfit, surrounded by proverbial spiritual giants...

You're not alone in feeling this, malkie, at least from my perspective. I went through similar experiences when I left, and yes, that "power of discernment" simply does not exist. One time, when I was separated from my spouse, for some reason I can't remember I ended up visiting him for a weekend. (some family commitment, I am sure.) He told his bishop and his bishop decided the perfect way to reconcile a couple was to assign them as joint sacrament meeting speakers. My LDS-trained sense of duty kicked in and I found myself saying yes, so, while I was leaving the church and divorcing my spouse, I ended up speaking in sacrament meeting as half of a dedicated, committed LDS couple. It was a bizarre, and not very good feeling, and I wondered if others were as good at faking things as I found out I apparently was. That was the last time I faked it for others in an LDS setting, including my family, which of course generated tremendous fallout. It was horrible to find out how many LDS people simply cut off relationships after finding out you left the LDS church.

[malkie]

...On the other hand, I was apparently quite successful is not exposing my own doubts - enough that I can say that I'm completely unimpressed by the so-called "power of discernment" that church leaders are supposed to be endowed with. I've received shocked responses to my outing myself as no longer a believer, and to having a messy marriage breakup. People saw my ex-wife and I as almost the ideal couple until suddenly and very publicly we were not. At times these experiences have left me wondering if I've been a total failure and misfit, surrounded by proverbial spiritual giants...

You're not alone in feeling this, malkie, at least from my perspective. I went through similar experiences when I left, and yes, that "power of discernment" simply does not exist. One time, when I was separated from my spouse, for some reason I can't remember I ended up visiting him for a weekend. (some family commitment, I am sure.) He told his bishop and his bishop decided the perfect way to reconcile a couple was to assign them as joint sacrament meeting speakers. My LDS-trained sense of duty kicked in and I found myself saying yes, so, while I was leaving the church and divorcing my spouse, I ended up speaking in sacrament meeting as half of a dedicated, committed LDS couple. It was a bizarre, and not very good feeling, and I wondered if others were as good at faking things as I found out I apparently was. That was the last time I faked it for others in an LDS setting, including my family, which of course generated tremendous fallout. It was horrible to find out how many LDS people simply cut off relationships after finding out you left the LDS church.

Hah! There must be a playbook or something.

When my (now ex-)wife & I were having difficulties in our marriage, our bishop assigned us to work at the bishops' storehouse, and the storehouse manager sent us out together on a series of deliveries that took all day. Didn't help - at all!

[Marcus]

You're not alone in feeling this, malkie, at least from my perspective. I went through similar experiences when I left, and yes, that "power of discernment" simply does not exist. One time, when I was separated from my spouse, for some reason I can't remember I ended up visiting him for a weekend. (some family commitment, I am sure.) He told his bishop and his bishop decided the perfect way to reconcile a couple was to assign them as joint sacrament meeting speakers. My LDS-trained sense of duty kicked in and I found myself saying yes, so, while I was leaving the church and divorcing my spouse, I ended up speaking in sacrament meeting as half of a dedicated, committed LDS couple. It was a bizarre, and not very good feeling, and I wondered if others were as good at faking things as I found out I apparently was. That was the last time I faked it for others in an LDS setting, including my family, which of course generated tremendous fallout. It was horrible to find out how many LDS people simply cut off relationships after finding out you left the LDS church.

Hah! There must be a playbook or something.

When my (now ex-)wife & I were having difficulties in our marriage, our bishop assigned us to work at the bishops' storehouse, and the storehouse manager sent us out together on a series of deliveries that took all day. Didn't help - at all!

Lol, there must be!

[MG 2.0]

That sounds like a good plan to me - although I'm not sure if you'll see my comment unless a non-enemy quotes it.

I think that you have caused yourself some suffering from attempting to engage too many people on too many threads. Perhaps you can create a TLA or FLA to capture the idea - similar to TTOC, and use it as needed?

I don't have you on ignore, malkie.

Regards,
MG

And to be clear, rather than respond to certain posters...even recently...I find it better for my own time and well being to ignore them. And yes, I realize that they will, and have had, the last word and be able to say pretty much what ever they want. I respect their right to do that. But again, from past experience over a long time, I've found that I essentially end up going around in circles with certain individuals with really no possible resolution but to agree with their...in my mind...distorted and jaundiced views.

Again, I respect their right to question and try and lead a discussion towards an end of their own making with a particular agenda/purpose in mind. I can live with that. I'm just not willing to be led by the nose down into the muck and mud.

There is too much of that in the world as it is.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

what mental gymnasts say when mental gymnastics fail to derail!!

[I Have Questions]

I don't have you on ignore, malkie.

Regards,
MG

And to be clear, rather than respond to certain posters...even recently...I find it better for my own time and well being to ignore them. And yes, I realize that they will, and have had, the last word and be able to say pretty much what ever they want. I respect their right to do that. But again, from past experience over a long time, I've found that I essentially end up going around in circles with certain individuals with really no possible resolution but to agree with their...in my mind...distorted and jaundiced views.

Again, I respect their right to question and try and lead a discussion towards an end of their own making with a particular agenda/purpose in mind. I can live with that. I'm just not willing to be led by the nose down into the muck and mud.

There is too much of that in the world as it is.

Regards,
MG

TTOC, or snore…

[MG 2.0]

And to be clear, rather than respond to certain posters...even recently...I find it better for my own time and well being to ignore them. And yes, I realize that they will, and have had, the last word and be able to say pretty much what ever they want. I respect their right to do that. But again, from past experience over a long time, I've found that I essentially end up going around in circles with certain individuals with really no possible resolution but to agree with their...in my mind...distorted and jaundiced views.

Again, I respect their right to question and try and lead a discussion towards an end of their own making with a particular agenda/purpose in mind. I can live with that. I'm just not willing to be led by the nose down into the muck and mud.

There is too much of that in the world as it is.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

I've already been fairly clear about this in the recent past, but I will state again so as to be clear.

There are some posters who over time I have come to the realization are not serious posters. They will mock, deride, and cherry pick and/or create straw men arguments and fail to answer questions pointed towards them with any clarity and/or completeness. I have found that it is not worth the time and effort to respond to those particular posters. There are four or five of them.

I also realize that these posters will most likely continue to post in the same manner distorting my posts and get away with it since I will not regularly check their responses and will not respond to them. Their twisted and pretzel like logic which circumvents and actually changes the narrative of my posts in order to get their own agenda across as the dominant narrative will continue, I'm sure.

Apparently, it already has.

I have recently posted in regard to what I see as "religious racism". There are those here that exemplify that to the extent that I am not willing to contend with them. For me, it has saved a LOT of time going around in circles with certain folks without accomplishing anything besides wasting the time of other posters who would just as well read something interesting without having to wade through personal attacks and religious racism.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

Please stop rehashing this topic MG 2.0