The Long and Winding Road (To Ruin) or Eight Days a Week (Of Woe): Mormon Apostle Blames the Beatles for Society's Ills

[I Have Questions]

When there is no valid argument of substance to be made, just throw out "troll!".

Or “TTOC”, or “snore…”

[I Have Questions]

I don't think that having the expectation that others follow the basic principals of moral behavior is unreasonable at all. Telling the truth being a primary one. If one cannot trust that someone else is telling the truth as they know it without subterfuge, then there is no reasonable conversation that can take place.

Yes. Like the First Presidency not telling the SEC the truth, nor the members about the wealth. Or hiding church history. Or ensuring a child abuser’s church record is wiped clean to hide their offending, allowing them unfettered access to more victims. That definitely erodes the trust I have in Church leaders. You know, when they are shown to have not followed the basic principles of moral behaviour. Does it erode yours? If not, how is that compatible with what you say in the quote above?

In terms of morals, that’s fungible for you and your church isn’t it. The Prop 8 activism by the Church aimed at preventing non Mormons from marrying someone of the same sex shows the problem. Why do you and your church get to decide what is and what isn’t moral behaviour? Why is Joseph Smith’s having sex with young girls considered by the church as within moral behaviour, but Beatles music is to be considered immoral?

[Shulem]

When there is no valid argument of substance to be made, just throw out "troll!".

Yeah, that always works.

And that's why it is not worth my time responding to the actual troll. Gird up, grin, and bear it.

Regards,
MG

Look, all you need to do is prove your salt because you've lost your savor.

Feel free to invite Marcus and go up into the Celestial forum and have a conversation about the content of my thread:

The Mosiah/Benjamin Error, What’s the King’s Name?

Let's see what you've got, MG. Don't be a troll.

Ur not chicken, are ya? We will be waiting.

[Shulem]

Mentalgymnast comes in with his extreme form of passive aggressive superiority which he clearly delights in expressing as a way of disrupting and distracting.

In my last post, I invited MG to have a conversation with you up in the Celestial forum in a thread that goes way beyond what apologists have done -- virgin ground for both of you to trod on!

[sock puppet]

I don't think that having the expectation that others follow the basic principals of moral behavior is unreasonable at all. Telling the truth being a primary one. If one cannot trust that someone else is telling the truth as they know it without subterfuge, then there is no reasonable conversation that can take place.

Yes. Like the First Presidency not telling the SEC the truth, nor the members about the wealth. Or hiding church history. Or ensuring a child abuser’s church record is wiped clean to hide their offending, allowing them unfettered access to more victims. That definitely erodes the trust I have in Church leaders. You know, when they are shown to have not followed the basic principles of moral behaviour. Does it erode yours? If not, how is that compatible with what you say in the quote above?

In terms of morals, that’s fungible for you and your church isn’t it. The Prop 8 activism by the Church aimed at preventing non Mormons from marrying someone of the same sex shows the problem. Why do you and your church get to decide what is and what isn’t moral behaviour? Why is Joseph Smith’s having sex with young girls considered by the church as within moral behaviour, but Beatles music is to be considered immoral?

Authoritarians don't like people thinking for themselves.

[MG 2.0]

The three-tiered heaven idea from D&C 76 has dependencies on the Book of Abraham—exposed as mistranslated—and the Book of Mormon’s own teachings (plus Whitmer) condemn later additions to the foundation. I’m not worried about the next life, but if someone is banking everything on that foundation, they might want to take a closer look.

Jesus taught that in His Father's house are many mansions. The Apostle Paul referred to a multi-tiered heaven. Think about it. It makes sense that with the wide and varied numbers of God's children that have lived and died upon the earth, that they are not all of the same 'exact nature'. We are all different with varying likes, dislikes, goals, motivations, levels of righteousness, etc., etc.

To think that we would all find ourselves happy in a place that isn't what we want/desire is a bit non-sensical. The Plan of Salvation and Exaltation provides a heavenly home for the lion's share of all of God's children.

What could be more fair/equitable than that?

As I said, I don't think any one of us has much to worry about in regard to a hoped for afterlife. We will get want we want and deserve based upon our choices/actions/desires/abilities, etc.

It's gonna be OK.

Regards,
MG

[Shulem]

Jesus taught that in His Father's house are many mansions.

Not "mansions" but rooms (dwelling places) in a single HOUSE in which all may dwell. It was a figurative expression Jesus gave that heaven is large enough for everyone.

The Apostle Paul referred to a multi-tiered heaven. Think about it.

Yeah, Saint Paul made that up, NOT Jesus. In heaven there is a HOUSE. One house in which God and all others dwell.

Think about that.

Smith made up his Three Degrees of Glory out of thin air. It is false doctrine!

[bill4long]

Jesus taught that in His Father's house are many mansions.

Despite the KJV translators, (They did the best they knew how at the time), Koine μονή simply means "a place to reside", "a place to make your living space." A bedroom qualifies. In the first century individual rooms in a house were called μονή.

In the very same chapter of John, version 23, "Jesus" uses μονή again, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our μονή with him."

There is no implication whatsoever of separate "heavens" implied.

The Apostle Paul referred to a multi-tiered heaven.

No he didn't. He used the the bodies of men, animals, birds and fish, sun, moon and stars as an examples of how things differ in "glory" (doxa), but when it comes to the point with regard to resurrected bodies, there are only two kinds of bodies for humans: the earthly and the heavenly. Those with the heavenly have the image of heavenly. Coupled with other teachings of Paul (e.g., Galatians 3, Collosians 2, Ephesian 2), it is clear that Paul had nothing in mind such as separate heavens or "degrees of glory." The "sons of God" are all equal, fully exalted and co-equal with Christ.

Joe and Sydney just didn't understand New Testament theology all that well.

[Shulem]

The Plan of Salvation and Exaltation provides a heavenly home for the lion's share of all of God's children.

What could be more fair/equitable than that?

Sounds like a business transaction, like getting paid extra for doing extra.

Mormonism is all about collecting dues and making promises of things it knows very little about -- the afterlife. Mormonism provides a retarded explanation of what the afterlife is all about -- why we are here, what we are doing, and what follows. I'm afraid your church doctrines are just stupid religion designed to instill fear and maintain control.

No thank you!

[I Have Questions]

Jesus taught that in His Father's house are many mansions.

Despite the KJV translators, (They did the best they knew how at the time), Koine μονή simply means "a place to reside", "a place to make your living space." A bedroom qualifies. In the first century individual rooms in a house were called μονή.

In the very same chapter of John, version 23, "Jesus" uses μονή again, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our μονή with him."

There is no implication whatsoever of separate "heavens" implied.

The Apostle Paul referred to a multi-tiered heaven.

No he didn't. He used the the bodies of men, animals, birds and fish, sun, moon and stars as an examples of how things differ in "glory" (doxa), but when it comes to the point with regard to resurrected bodies, there are only two kinds of bodies for humans: the earthly and the heavenly. Those with the heavenly have the image of heavenly. Coupled with other teachings of Paul (e.g., Galatians 3, Collosians 2, Ephesian 2), it is clear that Paul had nothing in mind such as separate heavens or "degrees of glory." The "sons of God" are all equal, fully exalted and co-equal with Christ.

Joe and Sydney just didn't understand New Testament theology all that well.

Well said. Mormonism (and MG 2.0) completely misunderstands the teaching. If only MG 2.0 had done the bare minimum of research before posting his incorrect assertion, he could have avoided looking like he’s not particularly well educated on the teachings of Jesus.