Peterson pushes NDE’s with more cherry picked pseudo science

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I Have Questions
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Peterson pushes NDE’s with more cherry picked pseudo science

Post by I Have Questions »

In what appears to be an increasingly favoured area of study for Peterson, he pushes the following on his readership.
Here is some material from Lucid Dying: The New Science Revolutionizing How We Understand Life and Death (New York: Grand Central Publishing, 2024), which was written by Sam Parnia, M.D., Ph.D. “AWARE-I” was the first of his major large-scale formal studies::

Importantly, in AWARE-I almost 9 percent had features of a recalled experience of death and 2 percent—two individuals—actually recalled hearing specific sounds or conversations and visually observing their own resuscitation efforts from above. They had experienced the sense of separation from the body—the elusive so-called out-of-body phenomenon. While one patient declined to return to the hospital for detailed interviews because of poor health, the other, a fifty-seven-year-old man, accurately described details of events that had occurred in the cardiac catheterization room after his heart had stopped following a major heart attack.

He specifically recalled feeling that he had been above his own body. He said he had seen people in the room around him and that they had given his heart electrical shock treatment (defibrillation) twice. He had a bird’s-eye view of all that was happening to him below while looking from above. He also specifically heard a nurse (“ Sarah”) speaking, and he also heard the staff say, “We’ve got him back.” Importantly, we were able to verify that his period of conscious awareness had happened when his heart was not beating and had lasted at least three to five minutes. This was very significant, as it was the first time that a study had identified a case of conscious awareness—in support of what so many people had claimed to have experienced—while there was no heartbeat. It had also been able to show how long consciousness had lasted.


In short, this was definitive verification of the perceived out-of-body phenomenon that people had talked about.
What Peterson neglects to mention is that Sam Parnia, in an effort to provide objective evidence, placed specific test objects and images in the areas of the operating theatres etc where the test subjects would only be able to view them as part of an actual out of body experience. But no test subject identified any of these test objects as part of recounting an out of body experience. Not one. Contrary to Peterson’s claim above, Sam Parnia’s study provided definitive verification that out of body experiences are "dreams", not actual lived experiences. Parnia even admits his study failed!
We need to consider what the odds are that one of the 140 people would have a memory (almost certainly contaminated, as no procedure was in place to prevent contamination) that matched events during cardiac arrest in some arbitrary details. This certainly sound consistent with random background noise in the data, and is therefore not evidence of anything.

Conclusion

The much anticipated AWARE study, designed to be the first large rigorous study of NDEs with objective outcomes that could potentially differentiate between the two major hypotheses, is essentially a bust. The study, for the main outcome measure for which it was designed, did not return as much data as was hoped, but the data it did return was entirely negative. This is a negative study.

Parnia, in my opinion, is desperately trying to rescue the study by falling back on simply reporting subjective accounts of what people remember long after the event. This type of information is nothing new, and cannot objectively resolve the debate. The results are also completely unimpressive, perfectly consistent with what we would expect given what is already well documented about human memory.

The only relevant part of the study is Parnia’s admission that the results may be due entirely to confabulation.
Peterson remains slapdash in his study efforts and prone to severely desperate confirmation bias. I cannot wait for him to finally produce these much touted writings of his.
Last edited by I Have Questions on Thu Dec 18, 2025 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Re: Peterson pushes NDE’s with more cherry picked pseudo science

Post by Physics Guy »

Aristotle may have thought that the heart was the seat of the soul, but we have known for a long time that the heart is just a pump that is needed to move oxygenated red blood cells around the body. If your heart stops, your brain can stay alive for at least several minutes. So consciousness persisting without a heartbeat is no scientific news at all, and changes nothing whatever about the state of evidence for life after death.

It may be quite interesting to know what consciousness is like at low blood oxygen levels. So this kind of research may well have scientific value. It just has nothing to do with actual death.

A stopped heart is not death.
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Re: Peterson pushes NDE’s with more cherry picked pseudo science

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But if DCP and the NDE researchers can define death as a stopped heart, then people have survived death. And that means Mormonism might be true.

Folks, you can’t make this stuff up!
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Re: Peterson pushes NDE’s with more cherry picked pseudo science

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How many Christians have NDE's where they see Allah? How many Muslims see Elohim? How many have NDE's and chat with Satan or visit Hell? How many NDE's receive any novel information that has never been known to humanity?
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Re: Peterson pushes NDE’s with more cherry picked pseudo science

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Meanwhile, there are accounts of people who have experienced soul fragmentation, and seeing their fylgja.

It's almost as if a culture's dominant cultural beliefs surrounding the afterlife permeate into people's experiences while "near death."
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Re: Peterson pushes NDE’s with more cherry picked pseudo science

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Rivendale wrote:
Thu Dec 18, 2025 1:55 pm
How many Christians have NDE's where they see Allah? How many Muslims see Elohim? How many have NDE's and chat with Satan or visit Hell? How many NDE's receive any novel information that has never been known to humanity?
How many Christians or Muslims have NDE's where they see a personage that they can unambiguously identify as anyone in particular?

It's likely that their experiences suffer from the same defect as that of Joseph Smith in Joseph Smith H-1: they report seeing a being that they later identify, without warrant, as a specific personage, while tacitly rejecting any other possibility. Others then interpret the report as claiming things that the original reporter did not say, sometimes appealing to the the thinnest of arguments, like "who else could it have been?". For example, in the case of the First Vision, it is often claimed that Joseph's encounter with the two personages proved that they had physical bodies, in spite of the canonized story making no such claim and providing no evidence to support such a claim.
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Re: Peterson pushes NDE’s with more cherry picked pseudo science

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My lifelong freind's dad died about 10 years back and on his deathbed he told him if there was anything after death he would find a way to let him know. Meanwhile we have these weird leaks in the veil that allow remote viewing, entire foreign languages downloaded into children's heads, dowsing, nebulous visions to psychics about murders, glowing stones and still not one sign read on top of the operating room lights.
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Re: Peterson pushes NDE’s with more cherry picked pseudo science

Post by I Have Questions »

Here is what the review into Parnia's study ends with, and it is directly relevant to Peterson's use of this study to promote the notion that there is rational, reasonable, objective evidence in support of NDE's...
Spinning of this study in the popular press as evidence of life after death is not justified.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Re: Peterson pushes NDE’s with more cherry picked pseudo science

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I Have Questions wrote:
Thu Dec 18, 2025 11:22 pm
Here is what the review into Parnia's study ends with, and it is directly relevant to Peterson's use of this study to promote the notion that there is rational, reasonable, objective evidence in support of NDE's...
Spinning of this study in the popular press as evidence of life after death is not justified.
Sorry to question your statement, IHQ, but are you suggesting that Dr Peterson's writings count as popular press?
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Re: Peterson pushes NDE’s with more cherry picked pseudo science

Post by I Have Questions »

malkie wrote:
Fri Dec 19, 2025 12:07 am
I Have Questions wrote:
Thu Dec 18, 2025 11:22 pm
Here is what the review into Parnia's study ends with, and it is directly relevant to Peterson's use of this study to promote the notion that there is rational, reasonable, objective evidence in support of NDE's...
Sorry to question your statement, IHQ, but are you suggesting that Dr Peterson's writings count as popular press?
:lol: No. I’m pointing out that Peterson’s spinning of the study as evidence of life after death and a literal separation of spirit and body, is not justified.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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