God can write straight with crooked lines.

[MG 2.0]

While playing this hopscotch game while commenting on whether God can write straight with crooked lines it might be useful to remember that where the Hoppy Taw is thrown might influence the game.

Also, remember (as I said in the original post) this is hypothetical. We are coming from the position that there is a creator God. If that's not something that your mind can play with, that's OK. Don't play!

Again, I'm a bystander. I want to listen and learn from great minds! (I'm serious about that).

Please stay on topic to the extent that we don't end up playing basketball...or rugby...rather than taking jumps on the hopscotch grid...if it is a grid.

Linear vs. sort of.

And please don't derail by 'shooting the messenger'. This is supposed to be fun.

Regards,
MG

[canpakes]

Maybe related: The fastest way to any travel destination follows a curved line.

Wrinkle in Time (!)

What does this mean in connection to "God can write straight with crooked lines"?

Limitations of a system, perhaps.

If a God decides to create a world filled with imperfect people, then imperfect people are all that this God would have to work with.

Is the question of ‘crooked lines’ the actual issue?

Is the question of which crooked lines are chosen, and why, more relevant?

What does fast/slow have to do with it, if anything?

Fast, slow, best or not. They all have the same answer.

[Gadianton]

The Book of Mormon says that all things testify of Christ. Korihor was punished for denying what was obvious to anyone with a brain. When the discussions are taught, they are taught with very clear lines. The investigator is led from one hopscotch square to the next with no ambiguity. Nobody has ever followed the pattern to baptism and temple marriage precisely as it is outlined and been told that they were missing out on all the great leaning experiences that come from ambiguity. Correlation teaches the gospel as a predictable formula to follow. there are never lines, for instance, that suggest one must go against the instruction of their priesthood leaders.

If everyone was super gullible and accepted the hopscotch squares as Mormon leaders demanded people move between them, there would never be a suggestion of crooked lines. The only reason why the lines are ever suggested to be crooked is if people aren't buying what the leaders are telling them. And then, suddenly, there is all this ambiguity to make us stronger.

[msnobody]

Over the years participating on this board, I have seen so many examples of this truth:

God can write straight with crooked lines.

I think it would be interesting to hear where others might come from as they consider this truth. First of all, are we willing to accept...if there is a creator God...that He would "write straight with crooked lines?" It would be interesting, just like in hopscotch, whether we can actually get to square one, or the first jump.

Obviously, I wouldn't ask the question if I didn't have an opinion. The problem is, if I present mine...as usual...folks will 'hop' all over the place simply trying to either make me look stupid or nonsensical, etc.

So, what are some of your thoughts? Hypothetically speaking, if there is a creator God, can/does He write straight with crooked lines?

By the way, this question can be used in conjunction with so many questions and issues that are brought up ad nauseum in regard to Mormonism, the apostasy, blacks and priesthood, current cultural battles, etc.

I'm going to stand back and watch, learn, and listen.

Regards,
MG

MG, when you say God can write straight with crooked lines, are you speaking of God’s divine decree?

God’s divine decree:
God’s eternal purpose according to the counsel of his will, whereby, for his own glory, he hath foreordained whatsoever comes to pass, and works his sovereign will in his entire creation according to his predetermined plan.

[Gadianton]

I hear this less as a theological claim and more as an observation about how history and human lives actually unfold. If there is a creator God, then working through imperfect people and messy circumstances wouldn’t be a flaw in the system, it would be the system itself. Expecting straight lines drawn by crooked hands may be the only way a world with real freedom could exist at all.

I don’t take the idea to mean that everything is justified or that mistakes don’t matter. Rather, it suggests that meaning and purpose aren’t automatically erased just because the process is flawed. Growth, learning, repentance, and even course correction all seem to require a world where things don’t unfold cleanly or predictably.

For me, the more interesting question isn’t whether God can write straight with crooked lines, but whether a world without crooked lines would leave any room for genuine choice, development, or understanding in the first place. So there is my two cents for ya MG.

I like your answer a lot, but I don't see it as compatible with any church or religion being the one true church or theology or set of doctrines.

[Philo Sofee]

I hear this less as a theological claim and more as an observation about how history and human lives actually unfold. If there is a creator God, then working through imperfect people and messy circumstances wouldn’t be a flaw in the system, it would be the system itself. Expecting straight lines drawn by crooked hands may be the only way a world with real freedom could exist at all.

I don’t take the idea to mean that everything is justified or that mistakes don’t matter. Rather, it suggests that meaning and purpose aren’t automatically erased just because the process is flawed. Growth, learning, repentance, and even course correction all seem to require a world where things don’t unfold cleanly or predictably.

For me, the more interesting question isn’t whether God can write straight with crooked lines, but whether a world without crooked lines would leave any room for genuine choice, development, or understanding in the first place. So there is my two cents for ya MG.

I like your answer a lot, but I don't see it as compatible with any church or religion being the one true church or theology or set of doctrines.

True. It is not meant to go that direction at all..... that one is a side rail, well, I mean, based on what I am interpreting MG's post to potentially mean. I do believe the effect here you are seeing is based on my reading and trying to come to grips with Tolkien and his ideas in his Legendarium. They truly are mind-bogglingly deep, even if they are just stories.....

[Jersey Girl]

I hear this less as a theological claim and more as an observation about how history and human lives actually unfold. If there is a creator God, then working through imperfect people and messy circumstances wouldn’t be a flaw in the system, it would be the system itself. Expecting straight lines drawn by crooked hands may be the only way a world with real freedom could exist at all.

I don’t take the idea to mean that everything is justified or that mistakes don’t matter. Rather, it suggests that meaning and purpose aren’t automatically erased just because the process is flawed. Growth, learning, repentance, and even course correction all seem to require a world where things don’t unfold cleanly or predictably.

For me, the more interesting question isn’t whether God can write straight with crooked lines, but whether a world without crooked lines would leave any room for genuine choice, development, or understanding in the first place. So there is my two cents for ya MG.

I like your answer a lot, but I don't see it as compatible with any church or religion being the one true church or theology or set of doctrines.

The OP (and subsequent probing of same) placed no conditions such as a church or religion or the one true church or theology or doctrines on our answers to his questions.

[Jersey Girl]

I hear this less as a theological claim and more as an observation about how history and human lives actually unfold. If there is a creator God, then working through imperfect people and messy circumstances wouldn’t be a flaw in the system, it would be the system itself. Expecting straight lines drawn by crooked hands may be the only way a world with real freedom could exist at all.

I don’t take the idea to mean that everything is justified or that mistakes don’t matter. Rather, it suggests that meaning and purpose aren’t automatically erased just because the process is flawed. Growth, learning, repentance, and even course correction all seem to require a world where things don’t unfold cleanly or predictably.

For me, the more interesting question isn’t whether God can write straight with crooked lines, but whether a world without crooked lines would leave any room for genuine choice, development, or understanding in the first place. So there is my two cents for ya MG.

YES! Though I might say it differently, and I probably will, I'm on the same team as you are.

[I Have Questions]

Over the years participating on this board, I have seen so many examples of this truth:

God can write straight with crooked lines.

What do you mean by “God can write straight with crooked lines” and how has it been established as a “truth”?

There’s a saying “Every cloud has a silver lining” which amounts to the same notion. However. It’s not true. Not every cloud has a silver lining. For example, where is the silver lining in the situation with Wade Christofferson who has been abusing family members for decades, facilitated by the First Presidency? There’ll be no silver lining for those family members who have to spend a lifetime with that memory.

Attributing a deity of your choice to a coincidence to make yourself feel better about something, has been happening since man first gained consciousness. People used to attribute human sacrifices to the Sun God as the reason for a good harvest, or the calming of a storm. Your chosen phrase could be “The Supreme Being, or Mohammed, or The Force, can write straight with crooked lines” and it would be equally a “truth”. Anyone can retrospectively attribute any event or outcome to any and all make believe superstitions. It adds nothing to human awareness but might sound great to a group of 7 year olds in a Primary lesson.

MG, feel free to show that it is only your SLC LDS version of God that this St Teresa/folk saying applies to. (Spoiler Alert: He won’t, because he can’t).

[Fence Sitter]

How would existence look any different if it were nature writing the lines? If “God writes straight with crooked lines” can justify any theology, then it cannot function as a meaningful starting point for evaluating a specific one.