Strange comment from MG. I've known a lot of Christians over the years and most don't give a rat's rear end about "Councils and the Creeds." They read the New Testament, mostly pay attention the the Book of John and a few Pauline letters and "love Jesus" and live the Golden Rule knowing that the blood of Jesus paid for their sins. Sounds pretty good, if I were so inclined, because the True Christiain Religion, if there is one, should be something a kid could understand. Indeed, Paul referred to the Good News as "simple." (2 Cor 11:3) "Rightness, Peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit." And all that. (Rom 14:17).
I bet it's even possible for Christians to do all of that without accumulating hundreds of billions of dollars in an investment fund, huge amounts of real estate in various places, and great and spacious buildings all over the world.
It's always all about the money, isn't it?
Oh, and the Gospel IS simple. Faith in Jesus, Repentance of sins, Gift of the Holy Ghost and endure to the end in righteousness.
Humans, however, have a tendency to travel the crooked road. It's a choice. You might wonder if Jesus was onto something when He said that straight is the way, narrow is the gate, and few there be that find it.
I remember when accumulation of great wealth was not considered a sign of success of a religious organization.
The money is a notable feature of the Mormon church, but far from the only thing that critics note - even on this thread. My reference to money (for anyone who read my comment) was as a "by the way" response to another poster.
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I remember when accumulation of great wealth was not considered a sign of success of a religious organization.
The money is a notable feature of the Mormon church, but far from the only thing that critics note - even on this thread. My reference to money (for anyone who read my comment) was as a "by the way" response to another poster.
The accumulation of great wealth is indeed not the sign of success as far as the LDS Church is concerned. It is the testimony of Christ in the hearts of its members that really matters.
Wealth and power are frequently referred to here as the prime motivators for why the leaders of the church do what they do. I just simply disagree.
I remember when accumulation of great wealth was not considered a sign of success of a religious organization.
The money is a notable feature of the Mormon church, but far from the only thing that critics note - even on this thread. My reference to money (for anyone who read my comment) was as a "by the way" response to another poster.
The accumulation of great wealth is indeed not the sign of success as far as the LDS Church is concerned. It is the testimony of Christ in the hearts of its members that really matters.
Wealth and power are frequently referred to here as the prime motivators for why the leaders of the church do what they do. I just simply disagree.
Regards,
MG
You have no idea what the Church Leadership really thinks. All we can go on is their actions. And the accumulation of eye watering amounts of wealth is indeed important to the Church based on what we see from the leadership. But they don’t want you to know that, so they tried to hide it from you, and from the SEC.
If the primary mission of the Church was something other than wealth accumulation, the leadership of the Church would trust that the Lord would provide in times of trouble, and they would go ahead and use that money to end all water issues in Africa, or something that would have a massive impact for good. Because hundreds of billions of dollars is doing nothing Christlike sat in bonds and real estate venture.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
I bet it's even possible for Christians to do all of that without accumulating hundreds of billions of dollars in an investment fund, huge amounts of real estate in various places, and great and spacious buildings all over the world.
It's always all about the money, isn't it?
Oh, and the Gospel IS simple. Faith in Jesus, Repentance of sins, Gift of the Holy Ghost and endure to the end in righteousness.
Humans, however, have a tendency to travel the crooked road. It's a choice. You might wonder if Jesus was onto something when He said that straight is the way, narrow is the gate, and few there be that find it.
Regards,
MG
Sure, it’s simple—faith in Jesus, repent, get the Holy Ghost, endure to the end… plus priesthood keys, saving ordinances, worthiness interviews, temple covenants, proxy work for the dead, exaltation, and eternal progression. Very minimalist, and simple, as long as you stop listing things at the fourth item. If it’s as simple as what you listed what do you need the temples for?
Oh, and the Gospel IS simple. Faith in Jesus, Repentance of sins, Gift of the Holy Ghost and endure to the end in righteousness.
Humans, however, have a tendency to travel the crooked road. It's a choice. You might wonder if Jesus was onto something when He said that straight is the way, narrow is the gate, and few there be that find it.
Regards,
MG
Sure, it’s simple—faith in Jesus, repent, get the Holy Ghost, endure to the end… plus priesthood keys, saving ordinances, worthiness interviews, temple covenants, proxy work for the dead, exaltation, and eternal progression. Very minimalist, and simple, as long as you stop listing things at the fourth item. If it’s as simple as what you listed what do you need the temples for?
Ouch!
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Oh, and the Gospel IS simple. Faith in Jesus, Repentance of sins, Gift of the Holy Ghost and endure to the end in righteousness.
Humans, however, have a tendency to travel the crooked road. It's a choice. You might wonder if Jesus was onto something when He said that straight is the way, narrow is the gate, and few there be that find it.
Regards,
MG
Sure, it’s simple—faith in Jesus, repent, get the Holy Ghost, endure to the end… plus priesthood keys, saving ordinances, worthiness interviews, temple covenants, proxy work for the dead, exaltation, and eternal progression. Very minimalist, and simple, as long as you stop listing things at the fourth item. If it’s as simple as what you listed what do you need the temples for?
Saving ordinances for the living and the dead are what might be considered to be entry points and/or formal markers of the repentance and faith that one commits to as a follower of Christ. Covenants are not extra burdens, they simply act as guardrails that lead a person along the "straight and narrow" path that leads towards God. Baptism is the beginning "entry point".
You know, Limnor, it might be useful to think of the basic tenets...four basic principles...of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as being the baseline, in a sense. We move from milk to meat as we apply the basic principles and move towards greater understanding and light/knowledge. The simplicity of Christ's message is the foundation, while the temple represents the deeper education/meaning along the road of 'eternal progression" that would naturally flow from commitment to the simple truths.
Proxy work in the temples is the ultimate expression of mortals in "loving one's neighbor"...a core tenet of Jesus's teachings. I can't think of a better example of selfless love than spending one's own time to serve in the temple in behalf of others that we haven't known in this life.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
MG
Last edited by MG 2.0 on Wed Jan 14, 2026 11:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Saving ordinances for the living and the dead are what might be considered to be entry points and/or formal markers of the repentance and faith that one commits to as a follower of Christ. Covenants are not extra burdens, they simply act as guardrails that lead a person along the "straight and narrow" path that leads towards God. Baptism is the beginning "entry point".
You know, Limnor, it might be useful to think of the basic tenets...four basic principles...of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as being the baseline, in a sense. We move from milk to meat as we apply the basic principles and move towards greater understanding and light/knowledge. The simplicity of Christ's message is the foundation, while the temple represents the deeper education/meaning along the road of 'eternal progression" that would naturally flow from commitment to the simple truths.
Proxy work in the temples is the ultimate expression of mortals in "loving one's neighbor"...a core tenet of Jesus's teachings. I can't think of a better example of selfless love than spending one's own time to serve in the temple in behalf of others that we haven't known in this life.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
MG
So the gospel is simple, but you immediately need milk, then meat, then guardrails, then ordinances, then temples, then proxy work, then eternal progression.
So, not simple.
I’ll add this to the list of terms that have to be defined differently when speaking Mormon.
Saving ordinances for the living and the dead are what might be considered to be entry points and/or formal markers of the repentance and faith that one commits to as a follower of Christ. Covenants are not extra burdens, they simply act as guardrails that lead a person along the "straight and narrow" path that leads towards God. Baptism is the beginning "entry point".
You know, Limnor, it might be useful to think of the basic tenets...four basic principles...of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as being the baseline, in a sense. We move from milk to meat as we apply the basic principles and move towards greater understanding and light/knowledge. The simplicity of Christ's message is the foundation, while the temple represents the deeper education/meaning along the road of 'eternal progression" that would naturally flow from commitment to the simple truths.
Proxy work in the temples is the ultimate expression of mortals in "loving one's neighbor"...a core tenet of Jesus's teachings. I can't think of a better example of selfless love than spending one's own time to serve in the temple in behalf of others that we haven't known in this life.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
MG
So the gospel is simple, but you immediately need milk, then meat, then guardrails, then ordinances, then temples, then proxy work, then eternal progression.
So, not simple.
I’ll add this to the list of yers that have to be defined differently when speaking Mormon.
It is rather simple. The thing is, one might imagine that a person would not sacrifice their time, talents, and everything they've been blessed with if they didn't/don't believe it.
If a person doesn't believe it all it's gonna look like something 'not so simple'.
For believers the yoke is easy and the burden is light.
