Why is it that you’re here, MG?

[MG 2.0]

Freeman Dyson:
​"As we look out into the universe and identify the many accidents of physics and astronomy that have worked together to our benefit, it almost seems as if the universe must in some sense have known we were coming."

Other scientists such as John Polkinghorne and Francis Collins have given credance to the Fine Tuning Argument.

Not something to be taken lightly as some folks here are apparently doing.

Regards,
MG

[malkie]

OMG - now "some folks here" are apparently taking the Fine Tuning Argument too lightly, and that is not something to be done.

If anyone reading this comment is one of these folks, be aware that some scientists give credence to the FTA, and govern yourself accordingly.

In other news, some scientists almost certainly believe in bigfoot, or flat earth, or Scientology, or ... Please, please do not take these things lightly. [Note that I didn't include Nessie in that list - I'm not kidding around here.]

Wait ... is the writer of the previous comment serious? Is it written in his best earnest school teacher voice? Sorry, but I had to indulge in some loud laughter at the thought.

[Marcus]

OMG - now "some folks here" are apparently taking the Fine Tuning Argument too lightly, and that is not something to be done.

If anyone reading this comment is one of these folks, be aware that some scientists give credence to the FTA, and govern yourself accordingly.

In other news, some scientists almost certainly believe in bigfoot, or flat earth, or Scientology, or ... Please, please do not take these things lightly. [Note that I didn't include Nessie in that list - I'm not kidding around here.]

Wait ... is the writer of the previous comment serious? Is it written in his best earnest school teacher voice? Sorry, but I had to indulge in some loud laughter at the thought.

Loud laughter apparently was echoing across the land of 'some folks,' because it happened here too.

Speaking of Nessie, one of my favorite X-files episodes is "Quagmire," where they look for a Nessie type--the dialogue in that episode waxed pretty philosophical and is to this day one I will rewatch with pleasure. The final scene is one I think you would enjoy, a fleeting glimpse of ...something...

By the way, I loved your story about your recipe handed down father to son! I smiled, too. Great job, Dad.

[Res Ipsa]

Freeman Dyson:
​"As we look out into the universe and identify the many accidents of physics and astronomy that have worked together to our benefit, it almost seems as if the universe must in some sense have known we were coming."

Other scientists such as John Polkinghorne and Francis Collins have given credance to the Fine Tuning Argument.

Not something to be taken lightly as some folks here are apparently doing.

Regards,
MG

No one here has taken it lightly. It may be the strongest argument for the existence of God, but it’s not very strong for reasons I know we’ve discussed here.

[I Have Questions]

Freeman Dyson:
​"As we look out into the universe and identify the many accidents of physics and astronomy that have worked together to our benefit, it almost seems as if the universe must in some sense have known we were coming."

Other scientists such as John Polkinghorne and Francis Collins have given credance to the Fine Tuning Argument.

Not something to be taken lightly as some folks here are apparently doing.

Regards,
MG

You are cherry picking Freeman Dyson to make it sound like he was finding God within the science. That is a serious (deliberate?) misrepresentation of his viewpoint. He fully accepted scientific explanations for the universe’s origin, rejected creationism, and used spiritual language to explore meaning—not to smuggle God into science. What Dyson is pointing at is something very close to the anthropic principle:If we are here to observe the universe, then the universe must be compatible with our existence. That can feel uncanny, but it’s not mysterious. It’s a selection effect. A simple analogy: You wake up in a room full of breathable air. It might “seem” like the room was designed for you. But the real explanation is: you could not be awake in a room without breathable air. The universe didn’t “know we were coming”. Rather, only a universe compatible with observers can be observed. Using Dyson’s line to argue for theological fine-tuning reverses the explanatory direction.

I note that you have failed to provide a link to the source of the quote that you used. Nor have you cited the source. Where did you cherry pick it from? Are you copy/pasting AI harvested content again?

[malkie]

Freeman Dyson:
​"As we look out into the universe and identify the many accidents of physics and astronomy that have worked together to our benefit, it almost seems as if the universe must in some sense have known we were coming."

Other scientists such as John Polkinghorne and Francis Collins have given credance to the Fine Tuning Argument.

Not something to be taken lightly as some folks here are apparently doing.

Regards,
MG

No one here has taken it lightly. It may be the strongest argument for the existence of God, but it’s not very strong for reasons I know we’ve discussed here.

I think I'm the guilty party here, with my whimsical description of life, the universe and everything.

But even if an entity did play with the knobs etc., in my opinion that doesn't "prove" that that entity created the universe, much less that it is the Mormon god.

[malkie]

OMG - now "some folks here" are apparently taking the Fine Tuning Argument too lightly, and that is not something to be done.

If anyone reading this comment is one of these folks, be aware that some scientists give credence to the FTA, and govern yourself accordingly.

In other news, some scientists almost certainly believe in bigfoot, or flat earth, or Scientology, or ... Please, please do not take these things lightly. [Note that I didn't include Nessie in that list - I'm not kidding around here.]

Wait ... is the writer of the previous comment serious? Is it written in his best earnest school teacher voice? Sorry, but I had to indulge in some loud laughter at the thought.

Loud laughter apparently was echoing across the land of 'some folks,' because it happened here too.

Speaking of Nessie, one of my favorite X-files episodes is "Quagmire," where they look for a Nessie type--the dialogue in that episode waxed pretty philosophical and is to this day one I will rewatch with pleasure. The final scene is one I think you would enjoy, a fleeting glimpse of ...something...

By the way, I loved your story about your recipe handed down father to son! I smiled, too. Great job, Dad.

Thanks, Marcus. I must look for that X-files episode - sounds interesting.

[Limnor]

It took a while for me to understand the “fine tuning” argument, but I think I get it—it’s what you do when there is no “creatio ex nihilo.” But to follow malkie’s question about God revealing Himself, and how you might recognize God if He did reveal Himself, it doesn’t really work to say “well you see God arranged things perfectly.”

The Fine Tuning argument might be seen as setting the stage...pointing to a universe that is intelligible and purposeful...while recognition of God’s revelation(s) happens in the arena of personal and communal encounters.

And one size doesn't fit all.

The fact that the universe doesn't seem to be random opens the door to the possibility of a God who has laid out a multifaceted plan.

It opens the door. One then either decides to walk through it or close it.

Regards,
MG

Calling fine-tuning “stage-setting” seems to concede the point—it doesn’t answer the recognition question, it just explains why someone might already be inclined to believe. That’s a different issue than how God would be known if He revealed Himself.

[Limnor]

Freeman Dyson:
​"As we look out into the universe and identify the many accidents of physics and astronomy that have worked together to our benefit, it almost seems as if the universe must in some sense have known we were coming."

Other scientists such as John Polkinghorne and Francis Collins have given credance to the Fine Tuning Argument.

Not something to be taken lightly as some folks here are apparently doing.

Regards,
MG

I’m not sure malkie (or anyone else) is taking the fine tuning argument unseriously—they’re just not taking your misapplication of it seriously. But, for argument’s sake, suppose the door is open as you say. We still don’t know who’s going to walk through it—or how we’d recognize them if they did.

[Gadianton]

The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator.

Fine tuning eh? The very constants of the universe much like the complexity of the human eye bear witness to Jesus Christ.

Sounds like God draws with straight lines to me. Wouldn't you agree, MG, that God draws with straight lines?