Something Is Seriously Wrong With the Bible Belt (And No One Wants to Say It)

[Chap]

See if I have got this right. They believe that they can trick God into forgiving them for sinning without heartfelt remorse?

Do you think that they know what they're doing is wrong in the here and now? And they're doing it anyway thinking they'll just ask God to forgive this particular sin? Like God is their get out of hell free card?

The Jersey Girl translation of the New Testament

For I was hungered, and ye "taxed other people and stole meat for me": I was thirsty, and ye "voted to have the government seize a coca cola factory from the owners": I was a stranger, and ye "confiscated a public children's gymnasium to house Kevin Graham's cheap tax free illegal immigrant work force." It doesn't matter that you yourself voluntarily gave absolutely nothing of your own bank account nor the fact that you haven't done a lick of work for the past 10 years. It's enough that you voted to take from working people and redistribute as you saw fit. Enter thou into the kingdom of Bernie Sanders and Josef Stalin.

Good luck trying to get Bernie to do any actual work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcOQO6O5P_c

All of us pay taxes - even those of us whose incomes are too small to attract direct tax pay a lot of tax in terms of sales tax and other levies on goods and services we buy - including of course the tariffs that some government leaders love so much, and which are mainly simple loaded onto the prices we pay.

Nowadays, unlike in the time of Jesus, we all have a voice through our votes in saying where our tax money should go. If you steadfastly refuse any idea that some of your tax money should go to help poor people inside and outside our native lands, do you think the Son of Man who comes to judge us is going to say "Well, I wasn't talking about that way of helping poor people when I said 'Depart from me, ye cursed ... Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.' I was just talking about giving from post-tax income.'

Frankly, I don't think you will find that will wash. I mean, does the Son of Man in the gospels sound that kind of guy?

And I really don't know how you can be so sure that people like Jersey Girl, Bernie Saunders and even myself don't give any of our after-tax income away to help poor people. Remember, Jesus told us that we were not to tell anybody about that:

Matthew 6:

1. Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

[canpakes]

See if I have got this right. They believe that they can trick God into forgiving them for sinning without heartfelt remorse? I’m

Do you think that they know what they're doing is wrong in the here and now? And they're doing it anyway thinking they'll just ask God to forgive this particular sin? Like God is their get out of hell free card?

The Jersey Girl translation of the New Testament

For I was hungered, and ye "taxed other people and stole meat for me": I was thirsty, and ye "voted to have the government seize a coca cola factory from the owners": I was a stranger, and ye "confiscated a public children's gymnasium to house Kevin Graham's cheap tax free illegal immigrant work force." It doesn't matter that you yourself voluntarily gave absolutely nothing of your own bank account nor the fact that you haven't done a lick of work for the past 10 years. It's enough that you voted to take from working people and redistribute as you saw fit. Enter thou into the kingdom of Bernie Sanders and Josef Stalin.

Good luck trying to get Bernie to do any actual work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcOQO6O5P_c

Someone was missing from Seminary when historical tzedakah was discussed.

[ajax18]

Frankly, I don't think you will find that will wash. I mean, does the Son of Man in the gospels sound that kind of guy?

I do because I think He believes in honoring the agency of man. When you vote to raise taxes, you're usurping that agency from other people. There is no need for this when you can just as easily choose to give what you can afford to give, with afford being defined by you and God alone. You're welcome to take these people in to live with you. You're welcome to sign an affidavit of support. The Jesus Christ that I believe in sees no virtue in being generous with other peoples money. No I do not think that all Republicans who refused to vote to tax other people but made inspired decisions to give of what was within their stewardship will be cast out. Nor do I believe that Jesus Christ sees any virtue in being generous with other peoples money.

Perhaps Jersey Girl does give of her own money. In that respect she could be practicing actual Christian virtue. Where I vehemently disagree with her is the idea that anyone who refused to be generous with other peoples money and limits their choice to their own stewardship somehow doesn't practice Christianity. She and the rest of you are 100% wrong on that and time will demonstrate the truth of it.

[Chap]

Frankly, I don't think you will find that will wash. I mean, does the Son of Man in the gospels sound that kind of guy?

I do because I think He believes in honoring the agency of man. When you vote to raise taxes, you're usurping that agency from other people. ...

So, to put it briefly, your deity thinks of people as a set of completely disconnected and atomised individuals, and does not recognise that they may legitimately make collective decisions? More than that, he is actually against such decisions being taken, in that he does not believe that people should agree collectively that taxes should be raised and that the income from those taxes should be spent in agreed ways. So no tax funded police forces, no tax funded national defence? Or does God think those are exceptions from the rule of not 'usurping agency from other people''?

How strange, then, that in both the Old and New Testaments God, both directly and through his prophets speaks to the whole of Israel as a collective group, whose sins he condemns as a collective and whom he promises to save as a people. If you are going to believe in God, I am afraid you are going to have to take him as you find him, not as you would prefer him to be.

[ajax18]

I do because I think He believes in honoring the agency of man. When you vote to raise taxes, you're usurping that agency from other people. ...

So, to put it briefly, your deity thinks of people as a set of completely disconnected and atomised individuals, and does not recognise that they may legitimately make collective decisions? More than that, he is actually against such decisions being taken, in that he does not believe that people should agree collectively that taxes should be raised and that the income from those taxes should be spent in agreed ways. So no tax funded police forces, no tax funded national defence? Or does God think those are exceptions from the rule of not 'usurping agency from other people''?

One of the problems with federal taxes to fund social welfare benefits in particular is the disconnect between the giver and receiver. I prefer charity as it is done at a local level through church organizations. A needy family first presents themselves and asks for help. This is key. Then a bishop or EQ president, relief society president goes over the finances with the needy family to see how to best manage their finances. These aren't faceless people helping or receiving help. When you're cheating people or being stingy, you see the effects of such behavior in real time. On the contrary when a Somali scams the government for millions and even billions of dollars through a COVID PPO scam, he thinks that he did nobody any harm. He just found a way to win the lottery.

How strange, then, that in both the Old and New Testaments God, both directly and through his prophets speaks to the whole of Israel as a collective group, whose sins he condemns as a collective and whom he promises to save as a people. If you are going to believe in God, I am afraid you are going to have to take him as you find him, not as you would prefer him to be.

I believe that ultimately we're responsible for our actions as individuals, not based on the family, race, or society to which we belong. I don't think we're being very responsible stewards when we continue to blow out money through a firehoze while being $39 trillion in debt. In the next world we'll see if God condemns me for not embracing socialism/communism. It'll interesting to talk about when the day comes. The God I believe in, is a benevolent capitalist who respects individual free will and agency.

[Equality]

So, to put it briefly, your deity thinks of people as a set of completely disconnected and atomised individuals, and does not recognise that they may legitimately make collective decisions? More than that, he is actually against such decisions being taken, in that he does not believe that people should agree collectively that taxes should be raised and that the income from those taxes should be spent in agreed ways. So no tax funded police forces, no tax funded national defence? Or does God think those are exceptions from the rule of not 'usurping agency from other people''?

One of the problems with federal taxes to fund social welfare benefits in particular is the disconnect between the giver and receiver. I prefer charity as it is done at a local level through church organizations. A needy family first presents themselves and asks for help. This is key. Then a bishop or EQ president, relief society president goes over the finances with the needy family to see how to best manage their finances. These aren't faceless people helping or receiving help. When you're cheating people or being stingy, you see the effects of such behavior in real time. On the contrary when a Somali scams the government for millions and even billions of dollars through a COVID PPO scam, he thinks that he did nobody any harm. He just found a way to win the lottery.

How strange, then, that in both the Old and New Testaments God, both directly and through his prophets speaks to the whole of Israel as a collective group, whose sins he condemns as a collective and whom he promises to save as a people. If you are going to believe in God, I am afraid you are going to have to take him as you find him, not as you would prefer him to be.

I believe that ultimately we're responsible for our actions as individuals, not based on the family, race, or society to which we belong. I don't think we're being very responsible stewards when we continue to blow out money through a firehoze while being $39 trillion in debt. In the next world we'll see if God condemns me for not embracing socialism/communism. It'll interesting to talk about when the day comes. The God I believe in, is a benevolent capitalist who respects individual free will and agency.

Re: the part I bolded above:

I didn't realize that Jared Kushner was Somali

Kushner Task Force Gave Priority to Trump Cronies

[Chap]

The God I believe in, is a benevolent capitalist

If we were in Old Testament times I would have to tear my garments to mark my horror at hearing such a blasphemous statement. The Ancient of Days, the creator of Heaven and Earth who says to us:

Isaiah 55:

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

And you dare to stick on this Being a vulgar little political label as you have done? You should be ashamed.

[ajax18]

The God I believe in, is a benevolent capitalist

If we were in Old Testament times I would have to tear my garments to mark my horror at hearing such a blasphemous statement. The Ancient of Days, the creator of Heaven and Earth who says to us:

Isaiah 55:

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

And you dare to stick on this Being a vulgar little political label as you have done? You should be ashamed.

You're right that God is above petty political titles. But I'm not sure even an angel could come down to earth and convince me that God wants me to vote for democratic socialism. I'm in line with the company of men I revere like Ezra Taft Benson and most importantly my father, so no I'm not ashamed. There's no need to tear your garments. You're not going to see any sackcloth and ashes upon me for the reasons you think I should. I've come closer to knowing God through the spirit, and when it comes to socialism I'm going to have to say the same thing as Joseph Smith when he replied to someone preaching socialism, "I told him that I didn't believe in the doctrine."

[Chap]

The God I believe in, is a benevolent capitalist

You're right that God is above petty political titles.

So let's keep it consistent, shall we?

[Some Schmo]

If you are going to believe in God, I am afraid you are going to have to take him as you find him, not as you would prefer him to be.

The problem here, if I may my good Chap, is that nobody actually stumbles across a god. As far as we can tell, it's still just an idea. If there is anything we could say about a god (should one actually exist), it's that it likes to hide from us. But that's all anyone could definitely say, because we "have found" nothing else.

The point is that ajax or anyone else who claims belief in an actual god can't help but create the god perfect for them, or as you put it, the one they prefer god to be. It's just how it works. I've never seen an exception to that rule.