My Dinner with Heidi

[Limnor]

Not to carry the metaphor too far but I did think about your story all day, res.

The hat made me think of the end of the Jonah story. The plant that gives shade and becomes the object of Jonah’s pity.

Probably a bridge too far to extend the metaphor. But I’m glad you found your hat.

[msnobody]

Interesting story. I’m glad you got your hat back. I guess she felt like it was her job to share the good news (I’m assuming that is what she shared), and not her job to convince you. If that were the case, she’d be right. It probably would have been a good thing to reciprocate listening and really taking an interest in what you had to say. Maybe she was feeling an urgency to get her words out or in a time crunch.

Hi Msnobody,

And I still haven’t lost it again.

I’m still puzzling over the conversation. I’ve had lots of good conversations over the years with folks about their religious beliefs. I’ve never had one where the believer was so defensive. Maybe she felt threatened being in such close proximity to an atheist. Maybe she was dead serious about the demon thing. I dunno.

At one point she said something like: “How can you not believe in God. What has science ever done for you?” It was a little jarring because I’d never said anything about science. It was if she thought I worshipped science. I started to say that I don’t worship science, but I only got a couple of words out before she was off and running again.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Crazy Christians. People believe some crazy stuff. About a year ago, I had a patient who wouldn’t let me do a forehead temperature check. He spouted off something like mark of the beast and 666. Then, annually now, we have to ask how they identify (straight/heterosexual, lesbian, gay, bisexual, queer, don’t know, other, don’t care to answer). He said, “God made valleys and hoses.” So, I quoted him. Now on his demographics it says, “God made valleys and hoses, where it would normally say things like heterosexual, homosexual, etc. I got the idea he was very fundamentalist, and probably legalistic.

[msnobody]

Just to give you an idea of her beliefs: JW’s, Mormons and yours truly were absolutely going to hell where we would suffer eternal torment. She adamantly insisted that I could not possibly understand how awful that torment would be. Satan was a literal personage (but not Satan’s Brother). She always prayed silently to prevent Satan from overhearing her prayers and plotting to trick her. She had been abused as a child and viewed her Heavenly Father as her only father and the person in the world she was closest to. She was certain we are in the last days and warned that I could literally wake up in hell tomorrow. She also said that I could be a literal demon.

I guess she felt like it was her job to share the good news

Um ... what she said above was GOOD news?

Well, no not good news. Sounds like the bad news without any good news. Maybe some mental health challenges, perhaps?

I probably didn’t pay close attention to what I read. I’m not going to go back to reread it as I’m tired. Mr. Nobody is in the hospital for an infection that has appeared to not have been clearing, now thought to rather have been superimposed with either a viral infection versus a hyper-inflammatory response. Feel like we have been racing with the clock to get it figured out. He has become a “difficult case study” for the medical team and medical students. Can’t treat for inflammatory response without first being sure it’s not a viral thing. They even sent some culture swabs to another hospital today in order to expedite obtaining results. Ready to pinpoint and treat the problem, and get this behind us.

She would be right in that it would be a terrible thing to be eternally separated from God. But God is God and we are not. His purpose will come to fruition. I think Christians tend to forget who the enemy is, and forget the role the Holy Spirit has in bringing a person to faith and belief in Christ.

[Philo Sofee]

“How can you not believe in God. What has science ever done for you?”

… she said, while holding a glass of wine.

And sleeping in a motel across the street where she had to be careful of traffic from the automobiles and/or possibly the buses or tram.....

[Res Ipsa]

I guess it was bad news for me. Eternal torment in hell and all.

And It’s really hard to make proper s’mores down here.

[Res Ipsa]

Not to carry the metaphor too far but I did think about your story all day, res.

The hat made me think of the end of the Jonah story. The plant that gives shade and becomes the object of Jonah’s pity.

Probably a bridge too far to extend the metaphor. But I’m glad you found your hat.

I had to re-read the story:

6 And the Lord God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd.

7 But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered.

8 And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live.

9 And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry, even unto death.

10 Then said the Lord, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:

11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle

I like the metaphor.

[Limnor]

I like the metaphor.

That’s how I think about God and His creation—the relationship, and kind of “what God gets out of it.”

Also I think the last line is funny.

“And also much cattle” lol

[Res Ipsa]

I like the metaphor.

That’s how I think about God and His creation—the relationship, and kind of “what God gets out of it.”

Also I think the last line is funny.

“And also much cattle” lol

Yeah. And the visual is great.

[Physics Guy]

The Jonah story had its whole show stolen by that fish, swallowing the guy for three days, but the actual plot of the story is interesting. Jonah gets sent to preach to the great but sinful city of Nineveh; the twist is that his preaching just works, and the city repents, with no miracles needed. And so there's no terrible judgement to vindicate Jonah and show what a great prophet he is. Jonah is disappointed, and God rebukes his hypocrisy.

An evil and adulterous generation craves a sign. Yet no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah, because just as Jonah was in the stomach of the sea creature for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights. The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment and condemn the people living today, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah.

Jesus's reference to Jonah makes sense, but only if you discard the explanation about Jonah being in the whale for three days, as a later interpolation by an overzealous reporter who misunderstood Jesus's point. It makes no sense to say, "A wicked generation craves a sign, but it won't get a sign, except for one heck of a big sign." And it's especially silly to shift the focus from Nineveh to the miraculous whale, when nobody in Nineveh ever sees the whale—the whale is a sign to Jonah, not to the people of Nineveh. The whole point of the Jonah story is precisely that even wicked people can repent without seeing signs. That fits with what Jesus is saying.

[Res Ipsa]

But what about the gourd?