Statue installed at slc temple “Jesus Christ Carrying the Cross”

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Shulem
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Re: Statue installed at slc temple “Jesus Christ Carrying the Cross”

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huckelberry wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2026 6:41 am
If I remember correctly LDS engage weekly in eating and drinking a symbolic representation of Jesus's death on a cross. I am puzzled by all this fuss over a different representation of the matter being placed in Temple Square.

I get what you're saying and agree. Although the sculpture may appear somewhat crass and out of place on temple grounds in front of the flagship of all temples, it's not like it's a sculpture of Christ being actually crucified -- for God's sake. Now that would take the cake! That would take it to an entirely different level. The carrying the cross is just a foot inside that door but they aren't there yet. Mormon egoism is desperate to be seen as Christian and Mormons will gladly sell their souls to the devil to do that.

Look at us! We're Christians! We're the true Christians!

Look at us!

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Re: Statue installed at slc temple “Jesus Christ Carrying the Cross”

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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2026 3:36 pm
I know it’s like being astonished that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, but is there not an obfuscation or lie DCP doesn’t enjoy? I know I know, he’ll play with some words and claim this or that, or make some disingenuous farcical statement about being the worst of the worst, but I find it a particularly queer Mormon male trait how loosely they play with the truth.

DCP, why don’t you try on the truth for once in your life? Who knows, you might like how it fits.
In efforts over now many decades to try to make sense out of what the LDS leaders do, Dan has become quite accustomed to the taste of sh*t sandwiches. So much so, I don't think he could now appreciate the flavor and texture of a slice of prime rib.
"There will come a time when the rich own all the media, and it will be impossible for the public to make an informed opinion." Albert Einstein, ~1949 "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." Voltaire
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Re: Statue installed at slc temple “Jesus Christ Carrying the Cross”

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A piece on death by crucifixion published in the inaugural issue of The Juvenile Instructor (1 January 1866) featured an illustration of Jesus on a cross. Remarkably, the short essay that accompanied the illustration took a shot at Christians who revered the cross:
The Savior suffered this terrible and shameful death, being crucified between two thieves. And a great many who call themselves Christians, or followers of Christ, pay a great deal of reverence to the cross, more, indeed, to the symbol or sign of the manner in which Christ died than to doing what He told them to do.
I am not making this up.
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Re: Statue installed at slc temple “Jesus Christ Carrying the Cross”

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Tom wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2026 8:57 pm
A piece on death by crucifixion published in the inaugural issue of The Juvenile Instructor (1 January 1866) featured an illustration of Jesus on a cross. Remarkably, the short essay that accompanied the illustration took a shot at Christians who revered the cross:
The Savior suffered this terrible and shameful death, being crucified between two thieves. And a great many who call themselves Christians, or followers of Christ, pay a great deal of reverence to the cross, more, indeed, to the symbol or sign of the manner in which Christ died than to doing what He told them to do.
I am not making this up.
In the first edition of Mormon Doctrine (1958), Bruce R. McConkie was notably blunt regarding the use of the cross, categorizing it under the heading of "Cross" and linking it the "great and abominable church."
Mormon Doctrine wrote:The use of the cross as a religious symbol is a form of apostasy; it is a visual representation of the fact that the use of such a symbol is a departure from the true gospel of Jesus Christ. The use of the cross is a pagan custom which was adopted by the Roman Catholic Church in the fourth century. To the faithful saints the cross is a symbol of the victory of Christ over death, but it is not a symbol that is used in worship.
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Re: Statue installed at slc temple “Jesus Christ Carrying the Cross”

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With most every new Mormon development, they prove once again that they are a 'peculiar people.'
"There will come a time when the rich own all the media, and it will be impossible for the public to make an informed opinion." Albert Einstein, ~1949 "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." Voltaire
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Re: Statue installed at slc temple “Jesus Christ Carrying the Cross”

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Peterson is now suggesting that the SLC LDS use of the cross symbology outside of the religion's flagship temple, is just akin to an illustration of New Testament happenings, and that it doesn't represent a significant shift from the past when Church Leaders explicitly stated that use of the cross symbology was "repugnant".
I’m still bemused by the antics of a small but vocal gaggle of critics who profess to see no difference between mainstream Christian veneration of the cross as the symbol of Christianity and of the atonement, on the one hand, and, on the other, showing a cross in a scene from the life of Jesus — whose life actually does involve a cross at an important part of the story.
So use of cross symbology in the rest of Christianity is still repugnant, but the SLC LDS Church use of it isn't, but anyway....Mormons are Christians. I'm paraphrasing but that's the gist of what Peterson is suggesting as an excuse for why the SLC LDS Church has committed a significant U-Turn on the use of cross symbology.
I’m reasonably confident that there will be no veneration of Michael Hall’s bronze sculpture of Jesus Christ Carrying the Cross. And, while tomorrow is Good Friday, the day in the Catholic liturgical calendar when such activities typically occur, I’ve heard of no planned rituals of adoration in the vicinity of the statue.

Is it even remotely possible that these critics are serious? That they’re commenting in good faith? Honestly, I doubt it. This is, so far as I can tell, a ginned-up pseudo-controversy. (Such things apparently amuse them.) They appear to believe, or pretend to believe, that Latter-day Saints have rejected any and all portrayals of the cross of Jesus until, well, just now. But such a claim is plainly unsustainable.
Dan, you're gaslighting. There are plenty of quotes that have been provided that SLC LDS have rejected all portrayals of the cross of Jesus as "repugnant" and as not in keeping with the Mormon faith. Why are you lying? To whom are you lying? Yourself perhaps?
I don’t think that my position is so complex that ordinary mortals cannot understand it.
Your position is very clear Dan, you will say anything and everything to justify SLC LDS acts, even if it is the opposite of what you or anyone else has said previously. Gaslighting is your stock in trade. Even your own faithful Church member commenters have pointed out that this is a significant change. Which it obviously is. Why are you struggling to accept that?

Peterson is trying to make it sound like the previous shunning of cross symbology was simply cultural tradition that just came about like urban myth. But the quotes from past leaders of the Church show that it was driven from the top. When a Prophet speaks the members take that as an instruction. Always. Or is Peterson willing to say that what members hear Oaks & Co. say at General Conference is just their cultural tradition being verbalised and it shouldn't be taken as inspired instruction? He wants to have his cake, and eat it. As always.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Statues on Temple Grounds

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Peterson wrote:I’m still bemused by the antics of a small but vocal gaggle of critics who profess to see no difference between mainstream Christian veneration of the cross as the symbol of Christianity and of the atonement, on the one hand, and, on the other, showing a cross in a scene from the life of Jesus — whose life actually does involve a cross at an important part of the story.
Beginning with Brigham Young (Peterson's hero) and succeeding Church Presidents leading up to McKay (1950's), the idea of displaying statues on church property was a reoccurring subject taken up in the highest councils but was always rejected by the voice of Church leadership as they felt impressed by the Holy Spirit's divine will. The statues allowed by God to reflect the gospel and the so-called restoration were that of the Smith brothers, Joseph & Hyrum, respectfully. Christ would play no part. There would be no statues made of Jesus lest it appear the church is embracing a form of idolatry and sectarian worship had by the Catholics and other false Christian religions. Some of this has been explained in my Celestial thread: New Church Logo of Jesus in a Bell Jar?.

Peterson is not being fair about his assessment and is in complete denial while defending the current position of the Church. But that's the problem, the current position is only one position, but there were others which are in opposition to the one currently in power. Mormonism throughout its history is a divided religion and this religion today is crumbling and losing itself.


Statues of Joseph and Hyrum Smith

The statues in 1915

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Shulem
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Re: Statue installed at slc temple “Jesus Christ Carrying the Cross”

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Peterson wrote:I’m reasonably confident that there will be no veneration of Michael Hall’s bronze sculpture of Jesus Christ Carrying the Cross. And, while tomorrow is Good Friday, the day in the Catholic liturgical calendar when such activities typically occur, I’ve heard of no planned rituals of adoration in the vicinity of the statue.
But the foot is just inside the door and this is only the beginning. Could this be the gateway drug leading to the real thing? It's like having a puff of marijuana that leads up to stronger drugs. Right?

Just look how these dumb statues effect people and prepare them to become more Catholic like as they revere an idol that represents God although he is made of stone. Whisper and use your temple voice -- show respect before the presence of that which is deemed sacred. Brigham Young would have never allowed this kind of activity, never!

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Re: Statue installed at slc temple “Jesus Christ Carrying the Cross”

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IHAQ wrote:There are plenty of quotes that have been provided that SLC LDS have rejected all portrayals of the cross of Jesus as "repugnant" and as not in keeping with the Mormon faith. Why are you lying? To whom are you lying? Yourself perhaps?
You are correct and your interlocutor is wrong. Here's the thing -- was this guy ever active enough in the Church to know what it teaches? He apparently didn't grow up in a very active home and so it's possible he just doesn't know about some of these things.

I grew up in fully active and dedicated Mormon home, and the cross was basically as symbol of apostate Christianity. That statue would never fly back then and would likely get a person excommunicated for sculpting it. But life, even for me, wasn't without its complications. My parents had strong opinions about art, and as zealous as they were as members, they abhorred Mormon art. Couldn't stand it. So we basically had Catholic art -- religious works of historic masters. But these works still went through a selection process to make sure they didn't look "too Catholic" -- after all, the Catholic church is the great and abominable church as discussed by Nephi.

One painting of Jesus that we had I noticed had a light source from behind his head that to me looked like it diffused into a cross. I brought it up one day, as I wasn't sure if it was appropriate, and my dad agreed. He said something like, "he had to sneak that in there I guess", acknowledging it was a flaw, but we didn't take it down.

What a time to embrace diversification though. Symbols are never straightforward. Growing up for me, the cross was half a sign of false religion as portrayed by other churches but was often utilized ironically by pop stars. If a kid at school wore a cross it could either mean they were just really religious or really rebellious. The pop culture trend has turned further such that crosses are worn in the same spirit as the swastika, while at the same time signaling orthodoxy to Christian faith. So of course, now that it emerges as a symbol of pure evil, the Brethren are big about embracing it and DCP also. Can't make this stuff up.
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Re: Statue installed at slc temple “Jesus Christ Carrying the Cross”

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I Have Questions wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2026 8:25 am
Peterson wrote:Is it even remotely possible that these critics are serious? That they’re commenting in good faith? Honestly, I doubt it. This is, so far as I can tell, a ginned-up pseudo-controversy. (Such things apparently amuse them.) They appear to believe, or pretend to believe, that Latter-day Saints have rejected any and all portrayals of the cross of Jesus until, well, just now. But such a claim is plainly unsustainable.
Dan, you're gaslighting. There are plenty of quotes that have been provided that SLC LDS have rejected all portrayals of the cross of Jesus as "repugnant" and as not in keeping with the Mormon faith. Why are you lying? To whom are you lying? Yourself perhaps?

Dan is lying. He knows better. He also knows that Anubis's nose was hacked off the lead plate and that those figures in Facsimile No 3 are not what Joseph said they are. He knows that ancient Egypt predates the narrative given in chapter one of the Book of Abraham by thousands of years. But he will continue to lie because he is addicted to lying. It's part of his character and personality. He can't help himself because he's stuck. It's a tragedy of his own making. His ego is in complete control of his life.

But I'm serious and have provided ample material to show that past church leaders loathed the idea of making statues to Christ and refused to do it. Past Church Presidents rejected the very idea of displaying statues of Christ unit McKay broke ranks and took the Church into a different direction leading into the modern era and a change in public relations.

Poor Dan. I feel sorry for him.
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