How often "plates" are discussed here.

[Rivendale]

Why do some people have such a hard time believing in Bigfoot? Or Nessie? Or Cryptids? Or leprechauns? Or Atlantis? Or that 9/11 was an inside job? How about remote viewing? Why do Mormons scoff at breatharianism? Why aren't they Raelians? Confirmation bias aside sometimes people take great liberties with a little bit of knowledge.

[Gadianton]

There are now about 500,000-600,000 African Mormons - WOW! But which churches have attracted the greatest numbers of these poor but full-of-faith Africans? Well, there are about 300,000,000 Protestants, of whom about 12,000,000 are Adventists.

I had to read this a couple of times to make sure I was reading the zeroes right.

[Morley]

I'm saying that it is the poor and humble...both in means and in spirit...that are more likely to see the Creator manifest/operating in their life. Think about Islam and prayers three times a day and repeating often the words, "If God wills it" or something similar. Other faiths with large numbers of people that are not the rich and educated of the earth naturally come to God. By whatever name they worship Him.

wtf

This is stereotyping. Muslims are not more "poor and humble...both in means and in spirit" than other religions (or even non-religionists). They're not more spiritual. They're neither poorer nor less educated than other religious denominations. The Salah are not typically three-times-a-day prayers. Invoking "Inshallah" is usually not seen as an act of piety, but a verbal reflex of not tempting fate, similar saying to "knock on wood." What you write here is so bad that it doesn't even rise to the level of being wrong.

[Marcus]

There are now about 500,000-600,000 African Mormons - WOW! But which churches have attracted the greatest numbers of these poor but full-of-faith Africans? Well, there are about 300,000,000 Protestants, of whom about 12,000,000 are Adventists.

I had to read this a couple of times to make sure I was reading the zeroes right.

Same. But, in the Protestantism wiki, it was confirmed:
"...In 2010, a total of more than 800 million included 300 million in Sub-Saharan Africa..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestan ... te_note-16

[MG 2.0]

I'm saying that it is the poor and humble...both in means and in spirit...that are more likely to see the Creator manifest/operating in their life. Think about Islam and prayers three times a day and repeating often the words, "If God wills it" or something similar. Other faiths with large numbers of people that are not the rich and educated of the earth naturally come to God. By whatever name they worship Him.

wtf

This is stereotyping. Muslims are not more "poor and humble...both in means and in spirit" than other religions (or even non-religionists). They're not more spiritual. They're neither poorer nor less educated than other religious denominations. The Salah are not typically three-times-a-day prayers. Invoking "Inshallah" is usually not seen as an act of piety, but a verbal reflex of not tempting fate, similar saying to "knock on wood." What you write here is so bad that it doesn't even rise to the level of being wrong.

OK. I used broad strokes to put across my presentation/assertion. Within the Islamic culture I would maintain...correct me if I'm wrong... there is a formal acknowledgement of the Creator’s will ("God wills it." "God willing.") far more frequently than in the secular West.

Does this not play a huge part in the growth of Christianity in parts of Africa also? Generally, people are more prone to make a simple acknowledgement of the "Creator's Will" as a given?

I'm pointing out that this is an entry point for huge swaths of people to be humble and poor in spirit, looking for further light and knowledge from God.

My point isn't about 'ranking' religions, but about how a lack of worldly means can often open a door to spiritual dependence.

Those that may have served missions in Central and South America tell stories and share experiences telling how those of little means are often happier than those that have a lot of wealth.

There are certain natural/cultural conditions (including humble living conditions) that are more condusive to faith at larger scale. Thus, the shrinking of faith in some areas and increase in others.

It just seems to me that in the Secular West of wealth and privilege we are seeing an erosion of simple faith and acknowledgement of God as a given. So many folks are 'puffed up' in their knowledge/attainments/prestige. That seems to be a stumbling black to faith in a divine Creator.

That's pretty much all I'm saying. I am not an expert in Islamic prayer or practice. And it may be a rote practice. Nonetheless, it puts God into the culture rather than taking Him out as our secular culture seems wont to do more and more it seems.

Regards,
MG

[Morley]

It just seems to me that in the Secular West of wealth and privilege we are seeing an erosion of simple faith and acknowledgement of God as a given. So many folks are 'puffed up' in their knowledge/attainments/prestige. That seems to be a stumbling black to faith in a divine Creator.

That's pretty much all I'm saying. I am not an expert in Islamic prayer or practice. And it may be a rote practice. Nonetheless, it puts God into the culture rather than taking Him out as our secular culture seems wont to do more and more it seems.

Yeah, it sometimes puts "God into the culture" so much that people fly planes into buildings in his name.

Putting "God into the culture" was the justification for the mullahs taking power in the Iranian Revolution--you know, the one that threw out the secular government of the Shah and inserted the rule of the God-centered mullahs to rule Iran and stir up crap in the Near East.

Yes, please, let's get rid of the failed secular democracies of Europe and the US and turn ourselves into God-fearing theocracies. Which theocratic government--past or present--do you see as the model we should be emulating?

[Morley]

OK. I used broad strokes to put across my presentation/assertion.

Misrepresentation is not the same as using "broad strokes."

Within the Islamic culture I would maintain...correct me if I'm wrong... there is a formal acknowledgement of the Creator’s will ("God wills it." "God willing.") far more frequently than in the secular West.

And this gives Islamic culture the advantage of...what?

[Limnor]

I'm pointing out that this is an entry point for huge swaths of people to be humble and poor in spirit, looking for further light and knowledge from God.

Sure, poverty is an entry point—not for MG, mind you, but for the people actually experiencing it. He’s just describing it.

[Gadianton]

One might say that God...being greater than they all...was the Author of our progression. He knew the way. He had traveled that road perfectly. Yeah, I know I'm using "Mormonese".

If he had travelled the road perfectly, you're suggesting he was also a man following the instructions of his God. He was not the author. And you're right, this is more Mormonese, throwing clusters of words together without thinking about what they mean, but having an internal sense of how they flow when surrounded by other believers. On a message board with people who either don't speak that language or refuse to speak it, you should either fully put your ideas together before you write them, or just as well, after you write them, go back and read, pretend you are a non-Mormon, and think about what you wrote is really saying, and make adjustments as you spot the confusion. You had some solid momentum going for about three paragraphs of your last post, so I know it's in your capabilities.

Got any better idea?

You mean, do I have any better ideas to salvage the Mormonese sentiment that God is behind us all? No, because you didn't need to make the statement in the first place. You got carried away in the thought of "creator God" and apparently didn't have in mind in that moment that we weren't created. When that's pointed out, you reinterpret the words you originally used as meaning something you didn't originally intend. But you didn't think about that either. In addition to God not being the author, as he learned the way from his own father, succeeding in the journey can hardly be credited to God to this extent.

If life is like a difficult Journey, then getting detailed instructions form somebody who succeeded on the route will help you very little without significant natural abilities or skills of your own. If a pro alpinist who has climbed K2 sits down with you and explains in detail how to get to the top, and what you need to do to get there, your chances go from near zero percent to near zero percent. Somebody with significant skills could forgo the instructions and try it on their own and perhaps have a 50% chance. So no, God is not "behind us all" as one who gave us the map showing the route he used to ascend K2.

[canpakes]

MG says it's interesting that extremely poor people are "able to develop a faith and confidence in a Creator".

Related, rabbits appear to believe that they cannot be seen if they stand really, really still.