2025 Lowest number of self identifying USA LDS adults for 20 years

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Equality
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Re: 2025 Lowest number of self identifying USA LDS adults for 20 years

Post by Equality »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2026 12:52 am
When I look at the 2025 statistical report reporting 385,490 baptisms...a twenty five percent increase...I see that as vitality, not propaganda as you do. Remember, the full story isn't just in attendance logs/rolls. One needs to also pay attention to the expansion of 87 new Stakes and the dedicated operation of 204 temples worldwide.

We are looking at "vitality" through different lenses. You as a nonbeliever and critic, me as a believer and observer of the overall growth and vitality of the church and the impact had upon members that have made covenants with God and are walking in obedience to His commandments.

I don't expect you or other critics to appreciate the influence the church continues to have upon good people that decide to enter the waters of baptism and move forward in faith.

Regards,
MG
Cool. Did Sacrament Meeting attendance increase by 385,490 people per week for the year 2025?

If the church is honest in all its dealings it won't withhold that information that would provide a truer picture of what is going on with those converts. As the church teaches in its Gospel Principles manual: "Complete honesty is necessary for our salvation." And "We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth. Whenever we lead people in any way to believe something that is not true, we are not being honest."

I have shown above how the church's selective cherry-picking of statistical data, refusing to release data they have that does not support the propagandistic narrative of accelerating "growth" is deceptive--by the church's own standard that it applies to others but not to itself. You've done nothing to even attempt to address the points I made, which is pretty typical of you.

Maybe Grok came up empty for you.
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Re: 2025 Lowest number of self identifying USA LDS adults for 20 years

Post by Res Ipsa »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2026 12:52 am
Equality wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2026 7:36 pm
You know who is not telling the "full story"? Your secretive, culty church whose leaders are not being honest in all their dealings with their fellow man, but are instead putting out propagandistic press releases touting the cherry-picked numbers that they believe put the best spin on the church's abysmal growth record.

If the church is going to put its topline membership number, it ought to provide the "full story" by giving out the following:

1. Weekly Sacrament meeting attendance
2. Number of current temple-recommend holders
3. Number of people who have made a full or partial tithe in the last year

These would provide much more context. The folks who say total number of members is less relevant than these other categories are correct.

To illustrate, consider the relative strength and vitality of two different hypothetical organizations, each claiming a membership of, say, 18 million people.

Organization A has 16 million people attending weekly events, making financial contributions, and volunteering their time to serve in the organization.

Organization B has 1 million people attending weekly events, making financial contributions, and volunteering their time to serve in the organization.

In providing an answer to the question "which of these two organizations has greater strength and vitality?" it would be imprudent to look only at the fact that both organizations have total membership of 18 million people, for one would have to conclude (without additional information) that they were of equal strength and vitality.

Of course, the public relations hacks of Organization B, who are handsomely paid to paint Organization B in the best possible light, would not want anyone to know that only 1 million out of their 18 million people were actually engaged meaningfully with the organization, would they?

To illustrate further with a real-world example: in 2006, I started my own religion following my own "Road to Damascus/First Vision" type experience. My epiphany was that we are all one, and that everyone belongs to the the one and only true and living church on the face of the earth, with which I am well pleased; yea, even The Church of Equality. Membership in The Church of Equality is open to all who would receive it--they don't even have to be of good cheer or pure in heart. My church is for everyone. Literally! The only requirement for membership is being born a human being on planet Earth. That's it.

At the founding of The Church of Equality in 2006, we had just 6.6 billion members. This made us the largest religion on Earth. We are now up to 8.3 billion and--miraculously!--are growing at the exact same rate as the growth of the planet's population.

Of course, The Church of Equality respects every individual's religious liberty, and if anyone apostasizes from Equalitarianism, unlike some cults that shall remain nameless, we will immediately remove their name from our membership rolls. All one need do to renounce their membership in The Church of Equality is send a notarized letter requesting name-removal, along with a small processing fee of $99, to The Church's headquarters.

I am happy to report that in 20 years since the founding of The Church (reminder: we ask all media to use the full name of The Church; i.e., The Church of Equality" when referring to The Church for the first time in any communication, and to please use the shorthand phrase "The Church" (with a capitalized "The") when referring to The Church again in the same piece, if necessary for space considerations*), not a single person has ever undertaken the name-removal process!

Inquiring minds who do not respect the sacred nature of the work performed by volunteer Members of The Church of Equality occasionally ask for more information abou the membership activity of Members of The Church of Equality. Given the most sensitive and sacred--not secret!--nature of that work, we do not divulge such information to people who are not prepared to receive it.

But the membership numbers speak for themselves: The Church of Equality is the world's largest and fastest-growing religion.

*We also ask the media to refrain from employing the term "Equalites" to refer to members of The Church, as it is a derogatory nickname invented by enemies of The Church and is considered a hateful slur by the 8+billion members of The Church worldwide. The correct way to refer to a member of The Church is "Member of The Church of Equality," unless referring to Members of The Church who are also members of the Equalitarian Amphitheatre Choir who can properly be referred to as "Equalitarians" but only when discussing their participation in the Equalitarian Amphitheatre Choir, as that world-renowned choir was named at a time when leaders of The Church, following the advice of consultants who had conducted numerous very expensive focus groups, plastered the name "Equalitarian" on every damn thing we did, only to later be told by a different group of high-priced consultants that *their* focus groups thought the name referred to a group of people who sing while riding horseback. So, we dropped it. But because of its historical relevance, we are willing to give some leeway to the media in using the term to describe our globally recognized singers.
When I look at the 2025 statistical report reporting 385,490 baptisms...a twenty five percent increase...I see that as vitality, not propaganda as you do. Remember, the full story isn't just in attendance logs/rolls. One needs to also pay attention to the expansion of 87 new Stakes and the dedicated operation of 204 temples worldwide.

We are looking at "vitality" through different lenses. You as a nonbeliever and critic, me as a believer and observer of the overall growth and vitality of the church and the impact had upon members that have made covenants with God and are walking in obedience to His commandments.

I don't expect you or other critics to appreciate the influence the church continues to have upon good people that decide to enter the waters of baptism and move forward in faith.

Regards,
MG
The numbers of stakes and temples are completely manipulable measures. Self-identification and attendance are not.
he/him
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Re: 2025 Lowest number of self identifying USA LDS adults for 20 years

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Speaking of church membership in the United States:
The Church has released year-end 2025 membership and congregation totals for most nations with a reported Church presence. These statistics can be accessed on Church's official United Kingdom website at https://news-uk.churchofjesuschrist.org ... statistics.…

Membership growth numbers for 2025 are the most historic ever reported by the Church for the following reasons.

First, the Church has never had so many countries with annual membership growth rates of at least 10%. There were at least 44 countries/territories where Church membership increased by 10% or more in 2025. In contrast, most years in the past 20 years have had only 10-20 countries that achieve this level of growth. The previous record appeared to be set in 2014 when there were 27 countries with 10% membership growth or higher for the year. This represents a dramatic departure from historical norms, as the number of countries achieving double-digit growth has more than doubled compared to typical annual levels over the past two decades. Importantly, this expansion is occurring simultaneously across both small and large membership bases, indicating that growth is not limited to emerging areas but is increasingly sustained in maturing ones[.]…

Third, the Church in the United States posted its first ever year of negative membership growth notwithstanding reports of a 17% annual increase in convert baptisms for the year. There was a net decline of 186 members for 2025, resulting in essentially 0.00% growth for the year. The previous all-time low for membership growth in the United States in modern times was set during the COVID-19 pandemic when there was only a net increase of 41,987 (0.62 over the two-year period from year-end 2019 to year-end 2021). Decreasing birth rates among active Latter-day Saints, removal of unbaptized children of record after age 8, and name removals due to death, loss of membership, or resignation appear to have driven this drop in membership. It is also possible that efforts to update the accuracy of membership records may account for this decrease. For example, the unusually large increase of nearly 3,500 members in Puerto Rico is most plausibly explained by membership record transfers from the United States, as Puerto Rico has historically experienced minimal growth. These data suggest that factors such as retention, inactivity, and membership record maintenance may now exert a greater influence on net membership totals in the United States than the number of convert baptisms or children of record added each year.
Source: https://ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.com/20 ... p.html?m=1 (emphasis added).

I’d be interested in seeing information about “efforts to update the accuracy of membership records.”
Last edited by Tom on Sun Apr 12, 2026 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2025 Lowest number of self identifying USA LDS adults for 20 years

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Tom wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2026 5:45 pm
Third, the Church in the United States posted its first ever year of negative membership growth notwithstanding reports of a 17% annual increase in convert baptisms for the year. There was a net decline of 186 members for 2025, resulting in essentially 0.00% growth for the year. The previous all-time low for membership growth in the United States in modern times was set during the COVID-19 pandemic when there was only a net increase of 41,987 (0.62 over the two-year period from year-end 2019 to year-end 2021). These data suggest that factors such as retention, inactivity, and membership record maintenance may now exert a greater influence on net membership totals in the United States than the number of convert baptisms or children of record added each year.

I've never been more proud to be an American. Let's hope this negative growth trend continues.
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Re: 2025 Lowest number of self identifying USA LDS adults for 20 years

Post by malkie »

Tom wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2026 5:45 pm
Speaking of church membership in the United States:
The Church has released year-end 2025 membership and congregation totals for most nations with a reported Church presence. These statistics can be accessed on Church's official United Kingdom website at https://news-uk.churchofjesuschrist.org ... statistics.…

Membership growth numbers for 2025 are the most historic ever reported by the Church for the following reasons.

First, the Church has never had so many countries with annual membership growth rates of at least 10%. There were at least 44 countries/territories where Church membership increased by 10% or more in 2025. In contrast, most years in the past 20 years have had only 10-20 countries that achieve this level of growth. The previous record appeared to be set in 2014 when there were 27 countries with 10% membership growth or higher for the year. This represents a dramatic departure from historical norms, as the number of countries achieving double-digit growth has more than doubled compared to typical annual levels over the past two decades. Importantly, this expansion is occurring simultaneously across both small and large membership bases, indicating that growth is not limited to emerging areas but is increasingly sustained in maturing ones[.]…

Third, the Church in the United States posted its first ever year of negative membership growth notwithstanding reports of a 17% annual increase in convert baptisms for the year. There was a net decline of 186 members for 2025, resulting in essentially 0.00% growth for the year. The previous all-time low for membership growth in the United States in modern times was set during the COVID-19 pandemic when there was only a net increase of 41,987 (0.62 over the two-year period from year-end 2019 to year-end 2021). Decreasing birth rates among active Latter-day Saints, removal of unbaptized children of record after age 8, and name removals due to death, loss of membership, or resignation appear to have driven this drop in membership. It is also possible that efforts to update the accuracy of membership records may account for this decrease. For example, the unusually large increase of nearly 3,500 members in Puerto Rico is most plausibly explained by membership record transfers from the United States, as Puerto Rico has historically experienced minimal growth. These data suggest that factors such as retention, inactivity, and membership record maintenance may now exert a greater influence on net membership totals in the United States than the number of convert baptisms or children of record added each year.
Source: https://ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.com/20 ... p.html?m=1

I’d be interested in seeing information about “efforts to update the accuracy of membership records.”
I've done that!

When I was Ward Clerk in 2 different wards I initiated a purge of records, based on failing to find valid addresses for people that nobody in the ward had any current information on. Memory is fuzzy, but I think I cleared out about 5% from each ward - about 15-20 people.

Years earlier, when I was president of my little branch in Scotland, I tried to clean up the records, but there was a difficult problem: of the 300 or so members on the rolls, (with an attendance of 25-30), more than 100 were "inactive prospective elders" who had been baptized under the "baseball baptism" program. Most of the ones I found denied that they were or ever had been members. The only way for me to get rid of their records was for them to request excommunication, and they had no interest at all in asking to be excommunicated from a church they believed they were not members of, so we were stuck with them.
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Re: 2025 Lowest number of self identifying USA LDS adults for 20 years

Post by I Have Questions »

Tom wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2026 5:45 pm
Speaking of church membership in the United States:
The Church has released year-end 2025 membership and congregation totals for most nations with a reported Church presence. These statistics can be accessed on Church's official United Kingdom website at https://news-uk.churchofjesuschrist.org ... statistics.…

Membership growth numbers for 2025 are the most historic ever reported by the Church for the following reasons.

First, the Church has never had so many countries with annual membership growth rates of at least 10%. There were at least 44 countries/territories where Church membership increased by 10% or more in 2025. In contrast, most years in the past 20 years have had only 10-20 countries that achieve this level of growth. The previous record appeared to be set in 2014 when there were 27 countries with 10% membership growth or higher for the year. This represents a dramatic departure from historical norms, as the number of countries achieving double-digit growth has more than doubled compared to typical annual levels over the past two decades. Importantly, this expansion is occurring simultaneously across both small and large membership bases, indicating that growth is not limited to emerging areas but is increasingly sustained in maturing ones[.]…

Third, the Church in the United States posted its first ever year of negative membership growth notwithstanding reports of a 17% annual increase in convert baptisms for the year. There was a net decline of 186 members for 2025, resulting in essentially 0.00% growth for the year. The previous all-time low for membership growth in the United States in modern times was set during the COVID-19 pandemic when there was only a net increase of 41,987 (0.62 over the two-year period from year-end 2019 to year-end 2021). Decreasing birth rates among active Latter-day Saints, removal of unbaptized children of record after age 8, and name removals due to death, loss of membership, or resignation appear to have driven this drop in membership. It is also possible that efforts to update the accuracy of membership records may account for this decrease. For example, the unusually large increase of nearly 3,500 members in Puerto Rico is most plausibly explained by membership record transfers from the United States, as Puerto Rico has historically experienced minimal growth. These data suggest that factors such as retention, inactivity, and membership record maintenance may now exert a greater influence on net membership totals in the United States than the number of convert baptisms or children of record added each year.
Source: https://ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.com/20 ... p.html?m=1 (emphasis added).

I’d be interested in seeing information about “efforts to update the accuracy of membership records.”
The UK stats are interesting. 190,000 claimed members across 298 congregations. That's 635 (ish) members per congregation. I can say with a high degree of confidence that the average attendance across UK congregations is less than 100 members per congregation. That level of disparity is mirrored across Europe.
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Re: 2025 Lowest number of self identifying USA LDS adults for 20 years

Post by sock puppet »

I Have Questions wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2026 5:45 am
Tom wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2026 5:45 pm
Speaking of church membership in the United States:


Source: https://ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.com/20 ... p.html?m=1 (emphasis added).

I’d be interested in seeing information about “efforts to update the accuracy of membership records.”
The UK stats are interesting. 190,000 claimed members across 298 congregations. That's 635 (ish) members per congregation. I can say with a high degree of confidence that the average attendance across UK congregations is less than 100 members per congregation. That level of disparity is mirrored across Europe.
So about 30,000 of the 190,000 on the rolls is all that attend. The LDS Cult ought to be doing better, after all, they dangle that they alone have all the truth (the fullness of the Gospel) and they alone perform authoritatively the saving ordinances. Yet, more than 5x the number attending do not.
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Re: 2025 Lowest number of self identifying USA LDS adults for 20 years

Post by I Have Questions »

It has been noted that, despite the large number of converts, membership numbers in the USA haven’t grown at all. They’ve dropped slightly.
A record 44 countries and territories witnessed their Latter-day Saint rolls grow by at least 10% last year, but the nation with the most members saw its Latter-day Saint ranks decline.

For the first time, the U.S. experienced a drop in Latter-day Saints, independent researcher Matt Martinich reports at ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.com, with a net decrease of 186 members, leaving the country’s overall 2025 tally at 6,929,770.

This dip, he notes, came despite reports of a 17% jump in convert baptisms.
It is reasonable to think that a downturn in total membership in the USA likely means a downturn in active membership.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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