Don’t they do this now? We just call it salary and wages paid for a job.
This is different. We won't have any jobs, and THEY will determine how much we get. I have no idea how that will work. What if they just do a flat rate of $1,000/month based on good behavior as THEY define it? Just an example. No overtime, no extra work available with side jobs etc. Just ONE way to get money, not based on skill or loyalty through time of sticking with a job, just on what THEY think you NEED. And if you do something they don't like, then no money for you this entire month. It's a nightmare scenario in my opinion.
I'm still not getting the difference. My employer pays me a flat rate every month (salary) as long as I engage in good behavior as it defines it. If I do something my employer doesn't like, it will fire me. In fact, my employer can fire me at any time regardless of my skill, my loyalty or my time with the firm. That's true of every employee in the United States, unless they don't live in an at-will employment state or are a member of a union.
Why is it scarier when it's the government making the decision than when it's a private employer? At least the government is bound by laws and the constitution.
he/him
“I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time so that my children can live in peace.” — Thomas Paine
This is different. We won't have any jobs, and THEY will determine how much we get. I have no idea how that will work. What if they just do a flat rate of $1,000/month based on good behavior as THEY define it? Just an example. No overtime, no extra work available with side jobs etc. Just ONE way to get money, not based on skill or loyalty through time of sticking with a job, just on what THEY think you NEED. And if you do something they don't like, then no money for you this entire month. It's a nightmare scenario in my opinion.
I think even more people would be faking some kind of disability than we see now under such a system. How many people are going to go to work every day. How many people are going to fight through sickness and ailments out purely altruistic motives? I didn't think it possible but you might actually see more people gaming the social security/disability system than you see now.
Why do you think wanting to earn more money to live a higher lifestyle is "altruistic?"
he/him
“I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time so that my children can live in peace.” — Thomas Paine
Physic's guy wrote: In my grandfather’s childhood, the poverty line was not having shoes. Today it’s maybe not having a smart phone.
Not sure about that, I think today all kids have multiple pairs of shoes and a smart phone and probably three TVs, but they may not have secure housing, health care, or food. I remember thinking a couple years back when I picked of a 35" TV for 49$ how tired I am of TVs and I'd rather go back to a TV being a major purchase and the definer of wealth rather than a house with more than ten square feet of yard.
The wealthy few will have to outbid all those people—and they will. So I expect that a chasm will form between the goods that everyone gets to have, and those that are only available to the elite.
Well, the things available to the elite in communist countries exist only due to capitalist countries producing them. But what would count as status post-scarcity once the richest country goes UBI?
A “high” UBI may not be exactly like serfdom or slavery or Communism,
It may be pretty close. Had Russia not made the insane decision to go to war, they had a reasonably sustainable system. Basics like energy, food, and housing are pretty cheap. Having one brand of car and vacuum cleaner has some major sustainability advantages.
As a reminder though, the assumption of my post was that Elon and his AI crowd are justified in believing AGI is around the corner -- that he can produce a cheap robot that can walk into any place of business and fulfill the jobs of any employee. And so assuming there are no jobs left, is there any good choice aside from UBI?
There is Ajax's let the lazy bastards die solution...
he/him
“I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time so that my children can live in peace.” — Thomas Paine
if AI is as good as Elon and Sam say it is, optometrists will be among the first ones out of business from the medical profession.
The doomsday sayers have been making this prediction about optometry since before I ever took my OAT. At times I've wished they would have been right. But as it turns out, people, especially boomers with money, detest having machines perform their eye exam. They don't even like telehealth eye exams. It's not very satisfying to complain to or blame a machine.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
if AI is as good as Elon and Sam say it is, optometrists will be among the first ones out of business from the medical profession.
The doomsday sayers have been making this prediction about optometry since before I ever took my OAT. At times I've wished they would have been right. But as it turns out, people, especially boomers with money, detest having machines perform their eye exam. They don't even like telehealth eye exams. It's not very satisfying to complain to or blame a machine.
This is different. We won't have any jobs, and THEY will determine how much we get. I have no idea how that will work. What if they just do a flat rate of $1,000/month based on good behavior as THEY define it? Just an example. No overtime, no extra work available with side jobs etc. Just ONE way to get money, not based on skill or loyalty through time of sticking with a job, just on what THEY think you NEED. And if you do something they don't like, then no money for you this entire month. It's a nightmare scenario in my opinion.
I'm still not getting the difference. My employer pays me a flat rate every month (salary) as long as I engage in good behavior as it defines it. If I do something my employer doesn't like, it will fire me. In fact, my employer can fire me at any time regardless of my skill, my loyalty or my time with the firm. That's true of every employee in the United States, unless they don't live in an at-will employment state or are a member of a union.
Why is it scarier when it's the government making the decision than when it's a private employer? At least the government is bound by laws and the constitution.
If you disagree with him politically and say so can he dock you $500 that month for punishment? The government can and will. Just look at how Donald treats Blue states! That is what I fear. If your boss decides you have to eat with him/her at their own choice of restaurant and you refuse or can't do they punish you for it? What if they tell you you can only wear certain clothing or drive certain types of vehicles? What if they take away your solar and or wind power? Are you forced to wear the same kinds of shoes as your boss is or you make less per month for a year until you conform? Etc. I can think of all kinds of scenarios where the government would be the single worse arbiter for your own decisions which it may or may not let you do.
If you disagree with him politically and say so can he dock you $500 that month for punishment? The government can and will. Just look at how Donald treats Blue states! That is what I fear. If your boss decides you have to eat with him/her at their own choice of restaurant and you refuse or can't do they punish you for it? What if they tell you you can only wear certain clothing or drive certain types of vehicles? What if they take away your solar and or wind power? Are you forced to wear the same kinds of shoes as your boss is or you make less per month for a year until you conform? Etc. I can think of all kinds of scenarios where the government would be the single worse arbiter for your own decisions which it may or may not let you do.
That sounds an awful lot like Kim Jong Un's North Korea to me.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
I'm still not getting the difference. My employer pays me a flat rate every month (salary) as long as I engage in good behavior as it defines it. If I do something my employer doesn't like, it will fire me. In fact, my employer can fire me at any time regardless of my skill, my loyalty or my time with the firm. That's true of every employee in the United States, unless they don't live in an at-will employment state or are a member of a union.
Why is it scarier when it's the government making the decision than when it's a private employer? At least the government is bound by laws and the constitution.
If you disagree with him politically and say so can he dock you $500 that month for punishment? The government can and will. Just look at how Donald treats Blue states! That is what I fear. If your boss decides you have to eat with him/her at their own choice of restaurant and you refuse or can't do they punish you for it? What if they tell you you can only wear certain clothing or drive certain types of vehicles? What if they take away your solar and or wind power? Are you forced to wear the same kinds of shoes as your boss is or you make less per month for a year until you conform? Etc. I can think of all kinds of scenarios where the government would be the single worse arbiter for your own decisions which it may or may not let you do.
Trump used to be a private employer. When he was, he could have done all of those things. My employer could do them too. That’s what at-will employment is all about: you don’t like something your employer does, you’re fired.
Are you this afraid of social security?
he/him
“I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time so that my children can live in peace.” — Thomas Paine
My only thoughts on this matter is that AI Psychosis is absolutely a real thing, and the leaders of every AI company definitely have it. They talk about AI like they've made god, not just a fantastically expensive chatbot that can lie to you, and be wrong. AI is a scam, and the bubble can't pop fast enough for me. Considering how much of our economy is driven by AI currently, the results will be a catastrophe, but at this point, “F” it.
Is that what Elon means by Universal High Income? Just putting everyone on social security and medicare? I'm not sure $1500 could get me through the week, let alone a month. Are people going work under the table for their real income the way people on SSI/disability or social security to do now?
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
