Long time no post.
Thought some of you might get a chuckle out of this.
A few days ago I posted (see below) about recent archeological discoveries in Mesoamerica that have exposed anachronisms in the Limited Geography Theory espoused by John Sorenson and his sycophants (Peterson, Midgley, Givens, Bushman etc). As you all know these gentlemen have pinned most of there hopes on the pre-classic Maya.
Many of the latest discoveries were made possible by the use of LIDAR, which is particularly good at revealing the oldest man-made structures of the Maya. I made the claim that most Mormons believed the Nephites were the ancestors of the Maya since that is what Joseph Smith believed. Mormon apologists have been hooked on the Maya since Nibley.
I was very surprised when Charles Nuckolls, the former head of the BYU Anthropology Department (2010-2016), popped in to correct me.
Charles' comment
My responseโSomeโ members, not โmostโ members believe the Mesoamerican theory. And the percentage is dropping. I taught at BYU for many years, and can attest to this from surveys.
To which Charles responded.Many members might not believe the Mesoamerican limited geography theory but most members certainly believe the Nephites are ancestors of the Maya. Any time the church illustrates the cities the Nephites lived in they are clearly modelled on Mayan cities.
Not certainly most of the thousands of students I instructed as Chair of the Anthropology Department. How preposterous. Mayans, indeed!
No wonder FARMS and the apologetic dribble they produced was shut down. The Head of the Anthropology Department thought its "research" was "preposterous".
The offending Facebook post
๐ช๐ฟ๐ผ๐ป๐ด ๐ฝ๐ฒ๐ผ๐ฝ๐น๐ฒ, ๐๐ฟ๐ผ๐ป๐ด ๐ฝ๐น๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ฒ, ๐๐ฟ๐ผ๐ป๐ด ๐๐ถ๐บ๐ฒ, ๐๐ฟ๐ผ๐ป๐ด ๐ฐ๐ถ๐๐ถ๐น๐ถ๐๐ฎ๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป๐: ๐๐ผ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ฅ ๐ถ๐ ๐ณ๐๐ฟ๐๐ต๐ฒ๐ฟ ๐ฒ๐ ๐ฝ๐ผ๐๐ถ๐ป๐ด ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐๐ผ๐ผ๐ธ ๐ผ๐ณ ๐ ๐ผ๐ฟ๐บ๐ผ๐ป
LIDAR technology has revolutionised Mesoamerican archaeology by revealing massive, hidden pre-Columbian cities, fortifications, and causeways, particularly in the Maya region. Mormon apologists have argued these discoveries add further support for the Book of Mormon. They donโt.
๐๐๐๐ง: ๐๐๐๐๐ฅ ๐ต๐ฎ๐ ๐๐ป๐ฐ๐ผ๐๐ฒ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฑ ๐ฒ๐๐ถ๐ฑ๐ฒ๐ป๐ฐ๐ฒ ๐๐ต๐ฎ๐ ๐ฐ๐ผ๐บ๐ฝ๐น๐ฒ๐๐ฒ๐น๐ ๐๐ป๐ฑ๐ฒ๐ฟ๐บ๐ถ๐ป๐ฒ๐ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐๐ผ๐ผ๐ธ ๐ผ๐ณ ๐ ๐ผ๐ฟ๐บ๐ผ๐ป ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฑ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ฐ๐น๐ฎ๐ถ๐บ๐ ๐ ๐ผ๐ฟ๐บ๐ผ๐ป ๐ฎ๐ฝ๐ผ๐น๐ผ๐ด๐ถ๐๐๐ ๐ต๐ฎ๐๐ฒ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐ฒ๐ป ๐บ๐ฎ๐ธ๐ถ๐ป๐ด ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐ผ๐๐ฒ๐ฟ ๐ต๐ฎ๐น๐ณ ๐ฎ ๐ฐ๐ฒ๐ป๐๐๐ฟ๐.
๐๐ผ๐๐ฒ๐ฝ๐ต ๐ฆ๐บ๐ถ๐๐ต ๐๐ฎ๐ถ๐ฑ ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฐ๐ถ๐ฒ๐ป๐ ๐ ๐ฎ๐๐ฎ ๐๐ฒ๐ฟ๐ฒ ๐ก๐ฒ๐ฝ๐ต๐ถ๐๐ฒ๐
In 1842 Joseph Smith claimed the "wonderful ruins of Palenque (Chiapas, Mexico) are among the mighty works of the Nephitesโ. Ever since, most members have believed that the Nephites are the ancestors of the Maya. Mormon apologists have even gone as far as claiming that the city of Kaminaljuyu (see map), which lies under Guatemala City in the highlands of Guatemala, is the city of Nephi, established in about 550 BCE (2 Nephi 5: 11-15).
๐ช๐ต๐ฎ๐ ๐ถ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ฅ?
LIDAR is a remote sensing technology that uses pulsed laser light to create highly accurate, three-dimensional models of environments. It has revolutionised Mesoamerican archaeology by piercing thick vegetation to reveal thousands of man-made structures such as buildings, elevated ceremonial structures and causeways. LIDAR is especially good at detecting the oldest remains of ancient civilisations that have been eroded by exposure to the elements for millennia and been buried by vegetation.
๐๐ผ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ฅ ๐ต๐ฎ๐ ๐ฒ๐ ๐ฝ๐ผ๐๐ฒ๐ฑ ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ต๐ฟ๐ผ๐ป๐ถ๐๐๐ถ๐ฐ ๐ ๐ผ๐ฟ๐บ๐ผ๐ป ๐ฐ๐น๐ฎ๐ถ๐บ๐
๐๐ง๐ค๐ฃ๐ ๐ฅ๐ก๐๐๐, ๐ฌ๐ง๐ค๐ฃ๐ ๐ฉ๐๐ข๐
During the latter half of the 20th century, the highland Maya city Kaminaljuyu was considered the birthplace of the Maya civilisation. It was the largest city in the Maya highlands and expanded rapidly in about 400 BCE. John Sorenson latched onto this now outdated science and claimed the Nephites were responsible for this accelerated development. Kaminaljuyu is also much closer to the western coast of Central America, where Lehi is supposed to have landed.
LIDAR has helped reveal that there are many much older Maya cities in the lowlands such as Cival, Ceival, Nakbe and Yaxnohcah (see map) that were established by around 800 BCE. The oldest Maya site is at Aguada Fรฉnix, which is located in the Mexican state of Tabasco. It dates to about 1000 BCE. The site contains a sprawling ceremonial centre a mile long (1.4km long and 400m wide).
https://www.sciencealert.com/largest-and-oldest-maya...
The Maya civilisation was clearly very well established and thriving four to five centuries BEFORE the family of Lehi are claimed to have arrived in the Americas.
๐๐ง๐ค๐ฃ๐ ๐๐๐ซ๐๐ก๐๐จ๐๐ฉ๐๐ค๐ฃ
Leading LDS apologists, Hugh Nibley and John Sorenson, have drawn extensive parallels between the Jaredites (who inhabited the land northward) and the Olmec civilization and between the descendants of Lehi (who inhabited the land southward) and the Maya. However, the Book of Mormon records no interactions between the Nephites and the Jaredite civilization. In fact, the Nephites only learned about the Jaredites (which had collapsed in a final war of annihilation around 400 BCE) when they encountered the Mulekites in about 130 BCE. So clearly, according to the Book of Mormon, the Nephites knew nothing at all about the Jaredites.
Discoveries in the last 15 years, largely thanks to LIDAR, have shown the Olmec and the Maya were intimately connected. There is compelling evidence that all civilisations in southern Mexico, including the Maya, rested on an Olmec base. They shared religious ideologies, monumental architecture, cultivation of maize, the sacred ball game, artistic mastery of jade, and they traded extensively in commodities such as obsidian, jade, rubber, and cacao. The Maya refined Olmec innovations in writing, astronomy, and calendrical systems and established the most complex civilization in pre-Columbian America. There is also no evidence of a cataclysmic Olmec collapse around 400 BCE, rather, they were gradually succeeded by the smaller Epi-Olmec cultures which flourished along the Gulf Coast of Mexico (mainly Veracruz) until 250 CE.
(See Coe, Michael D. Javier Urcid and Rex Koontz. Mexico: From the Olmecs to the Aztecs 8th Edition, Thames & Hudson, 2019 and Coe, Michael D., and Stephen D. Houston. 2015. The Maya. 9th ed. London: Thames & Hudson.)
The geographic proximity of Aguada Fรฉnix, the oldest Maya centre, close to prominent Olmec centres like La Venta and San Lorenzo (see map) reinforces the connection between these two ancient civilizations. For several hundred years these centres coexisted and undoubtedly traded and had extensive interactions. There is a large ceremonial mound at San Lorenzo that shares many of the features of the mound at Aguada Fรฉnix. There can be no doubt that the Olmec and Maya were well aware of each other.
๐๐ผ๐ป๐ฐ๐น๐๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป
Many LIDAR-enabled scientific discoveries in the last 15 years have exposed anachronisms in Book of Mormon apologetics that BYU has churned out for over half a century. The Maya and Olmec civilisation have nothing to do with the Book of Mormon. They were intimately connected and thrived at the wrong time and place to fit the Book of Mormon narrative.
We already know from extensive mitochondrial DNA studies on dozens of Maya populations and over 1,500 ancient and modern individuals that the Maya do not have ancient Middle Eastern ancestors. Scientists have also scoured their genomes and they have also failed to find Middle Eastern DNA. See https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... erated_in/
Itโs about time Mormons left the Maya alone and stopped making these racist and outdated claims.
