An ancient Australian setting for the historical Book of Mormon

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drumdude
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An ancient Australian setting for the historical Book of Mormon

Post by drumdude »

Since the church takes no official position on the matter, I think it’s important to take a look at Australia as a serious contender for the Interpreter Foundation’s next archeological dig.

An Australian setting fits the text very well in certain areas:
The Book of Mormon repeatedly describes the promised land as an "isle of the sea" (2 Nephi 10:20) and emphasizes that it is entirely surrounded by water (Alma 22:32)
The American landmass is huge and connected (North and South America joined by the Isthmus of Panama). This forces American geography models to define the "sea north, sea south, sea east, and sea west" around smaller localized regions (like Mesoamerica or the Great Lakes) rather than the entire continent. Australia is literally a giant island continent completely surrounded by ocean on all sides, perfectly satisfying a literal reading of an "isle of the sea."
The narrative describes a "land northward" that was largely barren, desolate, and devoid of trees due to past civilizations over-harvesting timber (Helaman 3:3–6).
Mezoamerica and Eastern North America were historically dense, lush, heavily forested environments. In Australia, the vast, arid, tree-scarce interior (the Outback) physically resembles descriptions of a dry, desolate land where people had to rely on shipping timber or building with cement (Helaman 3:7–9).
The text repeatedly highlights that the land was packed with accessible gold, silver, and copper deposits waiting to be mined (2 Nephi 5:15, Ether 10:23).
While the Americas (especially South America and Mesoamerica) are famous for gold, Australia possesses some of the largest and most easily accessible surface and shallow-depth gold and mineral deposits in the world (such as the Victorian gold fields and Western Australia).

The fauna and flora don’t match but they don’t match in the Americas either so that is essentially a wash. The Australian setting helps explain why no archeological evidence has been found in the Americas.

There are also several striking phonetical similarities:
Zarahemla -> Yarram / Yarrawonga: Shares the soft Z/Y initial sound combined with rolling R and M sounds.

Melek -> Melba / Mooloolaba: Shares the consonantal pair M-L-K. (Mooloolaba derives from Mulu meaning "snapper fish").

Gideon -> Gidgegannup: Shares initial G-D consonants. (Gidgegannup comes from Noongar meaning "place where spears are made").
The parallels are endless. Joseph smith couldn’t have known that Australia was home to some of the largest regular wildfires on earth.
3 Nephi 8–9 and Mosiah 12 depict extreme judgments marked by intense fire, burning cities, thick smoke, and vapor of darkness obscuring the sun.
Australia is ecologically defined by mega-bushfire cycles. Severe bushfires (such as those caused by dry lightning storms following intense droughts) produce colossal pyrocumulonimbus clouds capable of turning day into pitch-black night for hundreds of miles under thick smoke. A parallelist would argue that the specific description of suffocating "mist of darkness" and unquenchable fire mirrors southeastern Australia’s severe bushfire behavior far better than North American environments.
Ether 9:31–33 records a plague of "poisonous serpents" that bit the people and livestock, hedge-blocking their paths so they could not pass, driving them toward the south country.
Australia is home to 20 of the world’s 25 most venomous snake species (including the Inland Taipan, Eastern Brown, and Death Adder). Proponents would claim that a land whose geography and movement could be genuinely disrupted by deadly, highly concentrated snake populations fits Australia better than almost anywhere else on Earth.
Alma 48–53 details Moroni constructing massive defensive earthworks—deep ditches, ridges of earth, and timber palisades—to secure cities and boundaries.
While early 19th-century Americans were familiar with native mounds, modern archaeologists have documented that pre-contact Indigenous Australians constructed complex, widespread stone and earthen fish traps (like the Brewarrina structures), modified landscape boundary ridges, and built extensive defensive barriers/shelters in regional conflicts.

To put it simply, I don’t have enough faith to believe that these fits are mere coincidence. Exmormons need to prove that the Book of Mormon events couldn’t have taken place in Australia. Until then, the historical Book of Mormon remains as plausible and sensible as ever! :lol: ;)
I Have Questions
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Re: An ancient Australian setting for the historical Book of Mormon

Post by I Have Questions »

It would certainly open up a new front for foc travel opportunities.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Shulem
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Re: An ancient Australian setting for the historical Book of Mormon

Post by Shulem »

drumdude wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2026 7:33 pm
An Australian setting fits the text very well in certain areas:
The Book of Mormon repeatedly describes the promised land as an "isle of the sea" (2 Nephi 10:20) and emphasizes that it is entirely surrounded by water (Alma 22:32)
The American landmass is huge and connected (North and South America joined by the Isthmus of Panama). This forces American geography models to define the "sea north, sea south, sea east, and sea west" around smaller localized regions (like Mesoamerica or the Great Lakes) rather than the entire continent. Australia is literally a giant island continent completely surrounded by ocean on all sides, perfectly satisfying a literal reading of an "isle of the sea."
Not quite, drumdude.

Lehi landed on the promised land in about 591 BC and 2 Nephi 10:20 (words of Jacob) is dated to 559–545 BC which means Nephite exploration of the land of promise was still in its infancy. How hardly could they have traversed and mapped the entire peninsula and discover the isthmus (narrow neck) far north of their southern position in the city of Nephi-Lehi.

In addition, Alma the younger (several hundred years later) does not say or emphasize that the landmass was "entirely surrounded by water", rather he said, "the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla were nearly surrounded by water."

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drumdude
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Re: An ancient Australian setting for the historical Book of Mormon

Post by drumdude »

Perhaps Mormon God shouldn’t have put “isle” on the seer stone if he really meant something else.

I’m going to start my own branch of Mormonism with a literal interpretation of this!
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Shulem
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Re: An ancient Australian setting for the historical Book of Mormon

Post by Shulem »

drumdude wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2026 10:20 pm
Perhaps Mormon God [Smith] shouldn’t have put “isle” on the seer stone if he really meant something else.
The words "isle" & "isles" were used (2 Nephi 10:20,21) by Joseph Smith who knew full well that Nephi could not have yet known he was on a peninsula. Nephi praised God for bringing them across the sea to the Promised Land which for all intents and purposes seemed like an island. Joseph Smith knew it was too soon to let the cat out of the bag concerning the narrow neck of land up north which would have revealed the true nature of the landmass so he allowed Nephi to assume the Promised Land was an island. This makes the storyline consistent and allows for further light and knowledge through future exploration.
drumdude wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2026 7:33 pm
Exmormons need to prove that the Book of Mormon events couldn’t have taken place in Australia.
Australia does not have a narrow neck of land, a peninsula landmass, and a river (Sidon) running through it that coincides with specific geographic details described in the text. Furthermore, there is no means or way to march to Cumorah.

Australia is DOA.
drumdude
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Re: An ancient Australian setting for the historical Book of Mormon

Post by drumdude »

Shulem wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2026 5:07 pm
drumdude wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2026 7:33 pm
Exmormons need to prove that the Book of Mormon events couldn’t have taken place in Australia.

Australia does not have a narrow neck of land, a peninsula landmass, and a river (Sidon) running through it that coincides with specific geographic details described in the text. Furthermore, there is no means or way to march to Cumorah.

Australia is DOA.
Perhaps march is a loan word and can be twisted to mean sailing. Narrow is all relative, and I’m sure there’s a peninsula somewhere.

Open up your mind to the possibilities Shulem, don’t be so dogmatic! :lol:
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Shulem
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Re: An ancient Australian setting for the historical Book of Mormon

Post by Shulem »

drumdude wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2026 5:23 pm
Perhaps march is a loan word and can be twisted to mean sailing.
There is nothing in the text that equates sailing with a foot-march. They are two different forms of traveling -- one on dry land and the other on water.
drumdude wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2026 5:23 pm
Narrow is all relative,
Wide by one day's march (on land) and one and a half days long:

Image

Image
drumdude wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2026 5:23 pm
and I’m sure there’s a peninsula somewhere.
Show me:

Image
drumdude wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2026 5:23 pm
Open up your mind to the possibilities Shulem,
I already have and discovered Delmarva.
drumdude wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2026 5:23 pm
don’t be so dogmatic! :lol:
Oh, but I will!

:lol:
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Re: An ancient Australian setting for the historical Book of Mormon

Post by Marcus »

Shulem wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2026 5:38 pm
drumdude wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2026 5:23 pm
Perhaps march is a loan word and can be twisted to mean sailing.
There is nothing in the text that equates sailing with a foot-march. They are two different forms of traveling -- one on dry land and the other on water.
drumdude wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2026 5:23 pm
Narrow is all relative,
Wide by one day's march (on land) and one and a half days long:

Image

Image
drumdude wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2026 5:23 pm
and I’m sure there’s a peninsula somewhere.
Show me:

Image
drumdude wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2026 5:23 pm
Open up your mind to the possibilities Shulem,
I already have and discovered Delmarva.
drumdude wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2026 5:23 pm
don’t be so dogmatic! :lol:
Oh, but I will!

:lol:
You can't get past Shulem! His Delmarva theory is impeccably researched, and, in my opinion, irrefutable. 8-)
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Shulem
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Re: An ancient Australian setting for the historical Book of Mormon

Post by Shulem »

Marcus wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2026 6:09 pm
You can't get past Shulem! His Delmarva theory is impeccably researched, and, in my opinion, irrefutable. 8-)
Thou art wise and smart too.

8-)
drumdude wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2026 10:20 pm
I’m going to start my own branch of Mormonism with a literal interpretation of this!
And you'll end up like poor Ed Goble and his silly Book of Abraham apologetics -- a one man band with no followers!

:lol:
drumdude wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2026 7:33 pm
Since the church takes no official position on the matter, I think it’s important to take a look at Australia as a serious contender for the Interpreter Foundation’s next archeological dig.
Of course I recognize your presentation is satire and is designed to make a mockery of Interpreter which is nothing but a poop-house full of crappy papers, run by a lying fat fool.
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Re: An ancient Australian setting for the historical Book of Mormon

Post by drumdude »

Shulem wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2026 9:04 pm
drumdude wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2026 7:33 pm
Since the church takes no official position on the matter, I think it’s important to take a look at Australia as a serious contender for the Interpreter Foundation’s next archeological dig.
Of course I recognize your presentation is satire and is designed to make a mockery of Interpreter which is nothing but a poop-house full of crappy papers, run by a lying fat fool.
I find Interpreter endlessly amusing, it’s like watching a hamster try to do calculus. Dan really thinks he’s running a credible operation.
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