Why A Morbidly Obsese Mopologist Is Losing Sleep Over A Friend's Latte

[huckelberry]

My experience from back in the day was that those who made a huge deal out of commandments like coffee, keeping the Sabbath, refusing to use face cards -- those who made a huge freaking deal out of "easy" commandments (It's not hard to forego coffee if you didn't grow up with it), were those who were guilty of very substantial sins themselves. I'm thinking mainly of people in my age group, fellow BYU students and so on. Missionaries.

No face cards?

My very Mormon mother loved to play bridge, you know that game hoping to be delt aces kings queens Jacks. I do not know what church Gad is talking about. What is weird is that Dan was clear that he knew the friend had become inactive. He was not making judgments based upon coffee. He spent time talking about his family's enjoyment of coffee. I do not see Dan as having the narrow rule obsession clutched to by his critics.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

My experience from back in the day was that those who made a huge deal out of commandments like coffee, keeping the Sabbath, refusing to use face cards -- those who made a huge freaking deal out of "easy" commandments (It's not hard to forego coffee if you didn't grow up with it), were those who were guilty of very substantial sins themselves. I'm thinking mainly of people in my age group, fellow BYU students and so on. Missionaries.

No face cards?

For sure. It was a thing in the 70’s and 80’s when I was growing up in the PacNW. It was considered to be ‘the appearance of evil’ in that gambling uses face cards. Luckily, one of my grandmothers walked to the beat of her own drum and would bake fresh bread, fire up her coffee maker, and play rummy with me on the mornings she babysat me as a child. Never a happier memory was had than the smell of that fresh coffee, bread baked out of an old coffee tin, and having some good cards in my hand as an 8-year-old.

[Limnor]

No face cards?

For sure. It was a thing in the 70’s and 80’s when I was growing up in the PacNW. It was considered to be ‘the appearance of evil’ in that gambling uses face cards. Luckily, one of my grandmothers walked to the beat of her own drum and would bake fresh bread, fire up her coffee maker, and play rummy with me on the mornings she babysat me as a child. Never a happier memory was had than the smell of that fresh coffee, bread baked out of an old coffee tin, and having some good cards in my hand as an 8-year-old.

Scandalous!

[Marcus]

Perhaps he's upset they don't put enough sugar and fat in it for his tastes, so he's insecure at those black coffee drinkers?

You’re close to the solution. One just needs to add milk in sufficient quantity to change the drink from a Lamanite beverage with a body of darkness into a nearly-white and delightsome Nephite concoction.

No face cards?

For sure. It was a thing in the 70’s and 80’s when I was growing up in the PacNW. It was considered to be ‘the appearance of evil’ in that gambling uses face cards. Luckily, one of my grandmothers walked to the beat of her own drum and would bake fresh bread, fire up her coffee maker, and play rummy with me on the mornings she babysat me as a child. Never a happier memory was had than the smell of that fresh coffee, bread baked out of an old coffee tin, and having some good cards in my hand as an 8-year-old.

What a lovely memory!

I can also attest to that card thing, growing up in the Southwest in the 70s. We used Rook cards to play games because of the apparent evil found in face cards. It’s too late to ask her now, but I’ve long suspected my Mom’s youth may have gone differently, because when my Dad was away my Mom shuffled and dealt those cards with the ease and skill of a Vegas card shark.

[Gadianton]

Marcus has it right, all Chapel Mormons know face cards are bad. Huck can look up what Joseph Fielding Smith said about them, but the point is everyone knew they were bad. My grandma also played bridge but played with Rook cards. Playing some kind of card game with Rook cards is one of the only memories I have of that grandmother. And nobody knew how to shuffle, they just slopped them together. My family had Rook and Uno cards but never face cards.

Now, drinking coffee is far worse than playing with face cards, for the typical Chapel Mormon. I became fascinated with cards as a kid because of some movie with Kenny Rogers and even though my parents were the most strict in the ward, they really didn't seem to care when I eventually got a pack. I think it was a fad for the grandparents to be afraid of face cards, and that fear was hit and miss for my parents generation and almost non-existent for my generation. The fear of the coffee maker was supreme.

To my original points, those of my parents age, should they have gone off the handle over face cards, I would consider it quite appropriate and understand where they are coming from. That's not transparent virtue signaling. That's a legitimate fear of the power of Satan. However, those of my generation and younger were not very deeply indoctrinated with this fear as compared to drinking coffee. We all know about it, but it's only those with the most guilty conscience of my generation who would differentiate themselves by condemning face cards and refusing to play.

[huckelberry]

Gad, I think you are correct to call the face card thing a fad. I confess growing up in the sixties I heard some people rejected face cards. Perhaps some regions and times had people get excited about it. In the 70s and 80s my family get-togethers included bridge games. Two returned missionary siblings were enthusiastic players. There were nonfamily folks my mother played occasionally so our Mormon take on the game was not entirely unusual.

[I Have Questions]

Gad, I think you are correct to call the face card thing a fad. I confess growing up in the sixties I heard some people rejected face cards. Perhaps some regions and times had people get excited about it. In the 70s and 80s my family get-togethers included bridge games. Two returned missionary siblings were enthusiastic players. There were nonfamily folks my mother played occasionally so our Mormon take on the game was not entirely unusual.

I knew a family growing up that took the counsel not to gamble so seriously that they wouldn’t allow any board games in the house that involved dice or cards. Chess was fine, Snakes and Ladders wasn’t. I’m not kidding.

[Dr. Shades]

Although the face card thing was before my time, I definitely felt the residuals of it.

I wonder what Joseph Fielding Smith would've said about Magic: the Gathering if it had been invented back in his day.

[Kishkumen]

As soon as Smith banned tea and coffee, people should have seen catastrophe on the horizon. Nothing like bizarre, pointless rules to reveal the nonsense at work. I mean, alcohol I can see. Sure, alcohol is always potentially risky. Though I have enjoyed my fair share by now, I can see that. But coffee and tea? And then Mormons just double down on the dumb, saying caffeine is bad, so none of that! Face cards? For realz?!?! Oh yes, my friends. Also, no masks at Church Halloween parties. No rated R movies! No double piercings!

The litany of silly rules that reach ever further to an extreme. And of course you are expected to invite “ministers” into your home to snoop and make sure you aren’t breaking their made-up rules for how to live your life like a joyless prig.

No thanks.

[I Have Questions]

Given that the Word of Wisdom is a health code, which would have the biggest impact on improving the memberships physical health - a ban on tea & coffee, or a ban on saturated fats & sugar? (It’s rhetorical). The Church isn’t concerned with physical health, that’s just the spin.If it was then the temple recommend interview would include a BMI test. It’s concerned, as drumdude has pointed out several times, with member compliance and obedience.

Peterson claims to live the Word of Wisdom, does he appear physically healthy to anyone? Has he appeared physically healthy at any point over the last 40 years? Now, that’s his business. If he wants to overeat and eat unhealthy foods, that’s really his business and nobody should judge. But he opens himself up to scrutiny when he pontificates on what other people should or shouldn’t do with regards to the Word of Wisdom.