Why A Morbidly Obsese Mopologist Is Losing Sleep Over A Friend's Latte

[drumdude]

Many of those born to zealous Mormon parents are forced to choose if they will tolerate bigotry, condescension, and judgement in order to keep their family ties. Forced to believe in historical fictions. Forced to support anti-LGBT rhetoric. Forced to attend church where they will hear those bigoted messages repeated ad nauseum.

It is no moral failing when they are unable to keep the peace with closed minded TBM family members.

Yet DCP gleefully proclaims how much easier their lives would be if they weren’t so disconnected from their family. I don’t think he has much of a capacity for empathy, especially towards anyone who leaves or criticizes the Mormon church.

[Gadianton]

I'm not pronouncing his case typical, of course, but I'll admit that it doesn't seem "cause for celebration" or a particularly stirring illustration of "emotional, spiritual, and mental wholeness and wellness." He would almost certainly have been better off had he kept his covenants and remained in the Church

A fallacy known as the false dilemma, in case he hasn't heard of it. The Twelve apostles would almost certainly have had better life outcomes had they not followed that rabble rouser known as Jesus of Nazareth.

[Doctor Scratch]

I'm not pronouncing his case typical, of course, but I'll admit that it doesn't seem "cause for celebration" or a particularly stirring illustration of "emotional, spiritual, and mental wholeness and wellness." He would almost certainly have been better off had he kept his covenants and remained in the Church

A fallacy known as the false dilemma, in case he hasn't heard of it. The Twelve apostles would almost certainly have had better life outcomes had they not followed that rabble rouser known as Jesus of Nazareth.

And what about the economic dimension? If the Afore truly loves travel and food as much as seems to, then think about how much additional money he'd have to spend on chicken-fried steak if he didn't have to pay tithing his whole life. I mean, that's got to amount to something like hundreds of thousands of dollars. Just imagine how many mushroom-Swiss burgers you could buy with that!

[Gadianton]

Well, think of how much extra could be bought presuming his parents didn't pay tithing. From what I recall, his father did quite well with a construction business but wasn't active. Presuming this meant his father didn't pay tithing, all that extra money compounded over the years until he got his inheritance. Even if he did pay tithing on the inheritance, it's kind of like an additional IRA that accumulates tax free.

So there are advantages to not keeping one's covenants, and he's benefited directly from it. His father was able to pass down a whole lot more money because he wasn't brainwashed by the church, while at the same time, it seems like he was a decent man who wasn't a drug addict. Just going by what I recall he himself saying publicly online. If he could change the past, would he have his family as fully active if that meant losing a big chunk of inheritance money?

I highly doubt he'd make that trade. It's all too easy to reason that his inactive family members will accept the gospel in the spirit world and so he can keep the money.

[Tom]

Indeed, what spirit would possess Peterson to decide to share with the world intimate details about a man he admits he “once knew slightly”? The spirit of contention? The spirit of employing any means—even if [it] requires dragging someone—to win a meaningless argument with “Chet”? What a ghastly and uncharitable comment. I hope that he will delete it.

I’m sorry to say that Peterson has shared enough details to enable me—and, I assume, others—to identify the man.

Edited to insert a missing word.

[canpakes]

… a prodigiously talented musician who left the Church after his return and eventually settled into drug addiction and alcoholism, and who has gone through a long series of ever-less-glamorous jobs ending in now-complete unemployability, seems to be dying, largely friendless and self-isolated from his family, of cirrhosis of the liver and a complex of other drug- and alcohol-related malfunctions.

[Bolding added]

This sounds like an excellent opportunity for Peterson to reach out and be a friend.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

[Bolding added]

This sounds like an excellent opportunity for Peterson to reach out and be a friend.

Oh, absolutely. The Proprietor lives to help those less fortunate. Just ask Frenchy, who is still recovering from the all the help he received.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Indeed, what spirit would possess Peterson to decide to share with the world intimate details about a man he admits he “once knew slightly”? The spirit of contention? The spirit of employing any means—even if requires dragging someone—to win a meaningless argument with “Chet”? What a ghastly and uncharitable comment. I hope that he will delete it.

I’m sorry to say that Peterson has shared enough details to enable me—and, I assume, others—to identify the man.

If it’s any consolation there’s a bunch of us former-Mormons and non-Mormons who wouldn’t have a clue.

I wonder if there’s a mental illness that makes a man do this often enough that it surprises no one?

[Doctor Scratch]

Indeed, what spirit would possess Peterson to decide to share with the world intimate details about a man he admits he “once knew slightly”? The spirit of contention? The spirit of employing any means—even if [it] requires dragging someone—to win a meaningless argument with “Chet”? What a ghastly and uncharitable comment. I hope that he will delete it.

Absolutely, Tom. It's really quite a cruel remark, and implicit in it is the idea that this guy *deserves* to suffer this way because he left the Church.

[Tom]

Among church leaders, Joseph F. Smith was likely the most agitated and frequent critic of card playing, but church leaders and church publications have spoken against card playing for more than a century.

Editorial, “The Growth of Gambling,” The Church News, July 30, 1994:

President Ezra Taft Benson declared emphatically, "We should oppose gambling in all of its forms, including the parimutuel betting at horse races. We should refrain from card playing, against which we have been counseled by the leaders of the Church." (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson p. 460.)

For the Latter-day Saints, it is not enough to not play cards these days. We cannot tolerate any form of gambling.

(In March 1996, The Church News published advice from several church members for helping young people stay away from gambling. One member wrote:

Gambling is a destructive, devastating thing. Like any vice, when it comes to helping youth refrain, we can teach them the correct principles and then encourage them to be obedient. I suggest the following:

Have the Church brochure, "Concerning Gambling: Statements from leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." (This brochure is currently being revised by the Church.)

Remove face cards and games of chance from our homes—out of our cupboards and from computers and into the garbage.

“How to Help Young People Refrain from Gambling,” The Church News, Mar. 9, 1996.)

Spencer Kimball, “God Will Not Be Mocked, General Conference, Oct. 1974:

We hope faithful Latter-day Saints will not use the playing cards which are used for gambling, either with or without the gambling. As for the gambling, in connection with horse racing or games or sports, we firmly discourage such things.

Bruce McConkie, “Be Valiant in the Fight of Faith,” General Conference, Oct. 1974:

To be valiant in the testimony of Jesus is to take the Lord’s side on every issue. It is to vote as he would vote. It is to think what he thinks, to believe what he believes, to say what he would say and do what he would do in the same situation. It is to have the mind of Christ and be one with him as he is one with his Father.

Our doctrine is clear; its application sometimes seems to be more difficult. Perhaps some personal introspection might be helpful. For instance:

….

Am I valiant if I engage in gambling, play cards, go to pornographic movies, shop on Sunday, wear immodest clothes, or do any of the things that are the accepted way of life among worldly people?

Robert Simpson, General Conference, Apr. 1969:

Let me tell you about a sister who became literally hypnotized by a deck of playing cards. Eventually, there were not enough hours in the week to fit everything in. Her keen spiritual sensitivity became dulled, and it was easy for the cunning one to help her decide to give up an important Relief Society calling and abandon her wonderful circle of former associates in favor of the nonessential, time-wasting pastime that had captured her fancy. Sisters in the ward continuing their lives of charity and compassionate service are now termed by her as narrow- minded, as hypocritical and do-gooders, but in reality, the only thing that changed was this woman.

Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine (1966), 112-13:

Card Playing

See APOSTASY, GAMBLING, RECREATION.

President Joseph F. Smith has stated the position of the Church with reference to card playing in these words: "Card playing is an excessive pleasure; it is intoxicating and, therefore, in the nature of a vice. It is generally the companion of the cigaret and the wine glass, and the latter lead to the poolroom and the gambling hall. . . . Few indulge frequently in card playing in whose lives it does not become a ruling passion. . . . A deck of cards in the hands of a faithful servant of God is a satire upon religion. . . . Those who thus indulge are not fit to administer in sacred ordinances. . . . The bishops are charged with the responsibility for the evil, and it is their duty to see that it is abolished. . . . No man who is addicted to card playing should be called to act as a ward teacher; such men cannot be consistent advocates of that which they do not themselves practice.

“The card table has been the scene of too many quarrels, the birthplace of too many hatreds, the occasion of too many murders to admit one word of justification for the lying, cheating spirit which it too often engenders in the hearts of its devotees. . . .

“Card playing is a game of chance, and because it is a game of chance it has its tricks. It encourages tricks; its devotees measure their success at the table by their ability through devious and dark ways to win. It creates a spirit of cunning and devises hidden and secret means, and cheating at cards is almost synonymous with playing at cards." (Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed., pp. 328-332.)

Members of the Church should not belong to bridge or other type of card clubs, and they should neither play cards nor have them in their homes. By cards is meant, of course, the spotted face cards used by gamblers. To the extent that church members play cards they are out of harmony with their inspired leaders. Innocent non-gambling games played with other types of cards, except for the waste of time in many instances, are not objectionable.

Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions (1957), vol. 1, 191-94:

Question: "For some time I have had a very serious question on my mind. It is in regard to the playing of card games. Is it a sin to play cards or join card clubs? I am a returned missionary and have thought that there was nothing but evil coming from playing card games and joining card clubs. Some of my friends think I am very foolish in holding such a belief, but still I do not wish to join them in doing such a thing if it is considered wrong and not approved by the Church."

Nothing good comes out of card games or games of chance. There are numerous ways in which we may obtain wholesome amusement and recreation which is beneficial to both body and mind. In games where cards are used usually"stakes" are played for, and betting is done. Someone will obtain the "stakes," but no one really wins, for the one who obtains the "stakes" has lost part of his manhood which is difficult to regain. There seems to be an urge in human nature which leads many men and women to seek to obtain something for nothing, and many have risked their hard-earned substance on the altar of chance, hoping to win a fortune which they have not earned. There is a lure in all games of chance which Satan places before them, and in their greed or selfish desire for gain they take the uncertain bait far less innocently than does a fish which grabs the angler's hook.

The regular standard playing cards are used in gambling games. They are found in questionable resorts and gambling dens. Young people who have learned to play the games in their own homes or at card clubs with innocent intent too frequently are lured into questionable places where gambling prevails. Such games of chance are usually associated with cigarettes and beer and those who indulge in cards acquire also the tobacco and drinking evils. Card playing becomes a habit just as much as smoking and drinking. I remember a neighbor of mine who in his earlier days was addicted to gambling. Later in his life he repented and joined the Church. One day before a group of which I was a member, he emphatically impressed upon our minds the fact that gambling is a disease which fastens itself upon those who indulge so tenaciously that they seldom quit. Its influence upon character is just the same as the use of tobacco and strong drink. He advised all to shun all card playing and games of chance lest the habit would destroy them.

DISCOUNTENANCED BY AUTHORITIES

Card playing and all other games of chance should be avoided as the gate of destruction. All such practices have been discountenanced by the Authorities of the Church from the beginning of our history. When the Mormon Battalion was called into the service of the country, President Brigham Young addressed the volunteers and said that he wished them to prove themselves to be the best soldiers in the service of the United States. He admonished the captains to be fathers to the men in their companies and to manage the officers and men by the power of the priesthood. They should keep themselves clean, teach chastity and gentility. There was to be no swearing, and no man was to be insulted. They were to avoid contention with Missourians—their enemies —and all other persons. They were to take their Bibles and copies of the Book of Mormon with them and study them but not impose their beliefs on others. They were to avoid card playing, and if they had cards with them, they were to burn them. If they would follow this instruction, he promised them that they would not be called on to shed the blood of their fellow men.

President Joseph F. Smith has given this wholesome advice:

While a simple game of cards in itself may be harmless, it is a fact that by immoderate repetition it ends in an infatuation for chance schemes, in habits of excess, in waste of precious time, in dulling and stupor of the mind, and in the complete destruction of religious feeling. These are serious results, evils that should and must be avoided by the Latter-day Saints. Then again, there is a grave danger that lurks in persistent card playing, which begets the spirit of gambling, of speculation and what awakens the dangerous desire to get something for nothing.(Gospel Doctrine, p. 412.)

Card playing is an excessive pleasure; it is intoxicating, and therefore, in the nature of a vice. It is naturally the companion of the cigarette and the wine glass, and the latter leads to the poolroom and the gambling hall. Few men and women indulge in the dangerous pastime of the card table without compromising their business affairs and the higher responsibilities of life. Tell me what amusements you like best and whether your amusements have been a ruling passion in your life, and I will tell you what you are. Few indulge frequently in card playing in whose lives it does not become a ruling passion.(Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 38, p. 529.)

Relatedly, it appears that Harold Lee’s opposition to card playing extended to Rook:

Lee was classified by many as being a conservative or a fundamentalist. Certainly one manifestation of this was his contempt for card playing. Once while setting up a new mission in Billings, Montana, he was inspired to preach on this subject and put to flight a nest of bridge-playing sisters. He taught his daughters to totally avoid face cards, which sometimes were used for evil purposes, and to even avoid the appearance thereof. At the beginning of the New Year in 1947, he went with Sister Lee to a dinner party at the home of a dear friend, but left promptly after dinner when he learned that the entertainment for the evening was to play Rook, which he regarded as a substitute for regular playing cards and a complete waste of time.

Brent Goates, Harold B. Lee: Prophet and Seer (1985): 211.