John Dehlin joins Mormonism LIVE to give the other side

[Marcus]

How does the saying go? 'There's nothing good in Mormonism that is unique to Mormonism.' Finding the good in human endeavor, in spite of or even because of the circumstance, is not the equivalent of saying that the circumstance itself was uniquely good.

That quote brings back memories from years back ....slightly different wording.

That which is good about the church isn't unique, and that which is unique isn't good."

Ah yes, that's the one, thank you. It captures the reasoning exactly.

[Shulem]

One might argue, however, that with God’s help/influence crooked lines can be made straight. Or at least less crooked than without God’s help/influence.

I think we would all agree that Joseph was crooked.

Oh yes, he was quite crooked to the tune of 11-15-24!

You'll notice that MG has avoided that thread. But nothing new is ever discussed here on this boring board. Ain't that right, MG-baby?

[msnobody]

Good job of laying out the complaints and responses to the complaints. I only got through number 29, but I’m sure I didn't miss much that wasn’t already said with the same words rearranged in a different order. The part about the church wanting a disclaimer several times during each podcast was absolutely ridiculous. The whole lawsuit is ridiculous, and the church should be ashamed of itself.

[Kishkumen]

Good job of laying out the complaints and responses to the complaints. I only got through number 29, but I’m sure I didn't miss much that wasn’t already said with the same words rearranged in a different order. The part about the church wanting a disclaimer several times during each podcast was absolutely ridiculous. The whole lawsuit is ridiculous, and the church should be ashamed of itself.

Agreed!

[MG 2.0]

One might argue, however, that with God’s help/influence crooked lines can be made straight. Or at least less crooked than without God’s help/influence.

I think we would all agree that Joseph was crooked.

I think there is much more to Joseph Smith than simply describing him as “crooked”. To say that that he was not a perfect man might be more accurate.

1 Corinthians 1:26-29
2 Corinthians 12:9-10
Acts 4:13
Like 1:46-55
2 Corinthians 4:7
Matthew 18: 1-4 and 20:26-28

Scriptures which might cause one to consider whether God always calls the high and mighty of the earth to accomplish His work. I think the weak are more susceptible and pliable to instruction and humility.

I also think that there is a tendency for the so called learned to prejudge those that are their “lessers”. Alexander Campbell comes to mind.

From a believer's standpoint it is rather obvious that God can work with imperfect people…even those that may for a time walk along crooked paths…to accomplish His ultimate purposes.

Regards,
MG

[Limnor]

I think we would all agree that Joseph was crooked.

I think there is much more to Joseph Smith than simply describing him as “crooked”. To say that that he was not a perfect man might be more accurate.

1 Corinthians 1:26-29
2 Corinthians 12:9-10
Acts 4:13
Like 1:46-55
2 Corinthians 4:7
Matthew 18: 1-4 and 20:26-28

Scriptures which might cause one to consider whether God always calls the high and mighty of the earth to accomplish His work. I think the weak are more susceptible and pliable to instruction and humility.

I also think that there is a tendency for the so called learned to prejudge those that are their “lessers”. Alexander Campbell comes to mind.

From a believers standpoint it is rather obvious that God can work with imperfect people…even those that may for a time walk along crooked paths…to accomplish His ultimate purposes.

Regards,
MG

Let’s say Dan McClellan has it right and the book is a 19th century product. Does the imperfection, let’s call it a lie about the origin, that he didn’t actually translate an ancient record, and the Book of Mormon was never ancient in the first place, does that make him an imperfect prophet? Or is there more of a problem there?

[MG 2.0]

I think there is much more to Joseph Smith than simply describing him as “crooked”. To say that that he was not a perfect man might be more accurate.

1 Corinthians 1:26-29
2 Corinthians 12:9-10
Acts 4:13
Like 1:46-55
2 Corinthians 4:7
Matthew 18: 1-4 and 20:26-28

Scriptures which might cause one to consider whether God always calls the high and mighty of the earth to accomplish His work. I think the weak are more susceptible and pliable to instruction and humility.

I also think that there is a tendency for the so called learned to prejudge those that are their “lessers”. Alexander Campbell comes to mind.

From a believers standpoint it is rather obvious that God can work with imperfect people…even those that may for a time walk along crooked paths…to accomplish His ultimate purposes.

Regards,
MG

Let’s say Dan McClellan has it right and the book is a 19th century product. Does the imperfection, let’s call it a lie about the origin, that he didn’t actually translate an ancient record, and the Book of Mormon was never ancient in the first place, does that make him an imperfect prophet? Or is there more of a problem there?

You're using a hypothetical that I don't think represents the reality when all factors are considered.

It's a nonstarter.

Regards,
MG

[Limnor]

You're using a hypothetical that I don't think represents the reality when all factors are considered.

It's a nonstarter.

Regards,
MG

So he was crooked, but about what is a mystery. Definitely not crooked looking into a hat to produce a book, nope.

[MG 2.0]

You're using a hypothetical that I don't think represents the reality when all factors are considered.

It's a nonstarter.

Regards,
MG

So he was crooked, but about what is a mystery. Definitely not crooked looking into a hat to produce a book, nope.

Limnor, I think at this point you’re simply throwing mud and reducing what is complex into simple one liners.

Regards,
MG

[Limnor]

So he was crooked, but about what is a mystery. Definitely not crooked looking into a hat to produce a book, nope.

Limnor, I think at this point you’re simply throwing mud and reducing what is complex into simple one liners.

Regards,
MG

So explain it.