Sucking up to the boss…

[I Have Questions]

In a bizarrely overt display of sycophancy the Church news has produced this piece of brown-nosing…

In marking the first anniversary of President Dallin H. Oaks’ prophetic leadership, the Church News invited members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles to share the leadership qualities they have observed from the Prophet.

Here is just one example of the flattery for Oaks…

“I personally interacted with President Oaks 53 years ago as a BYU student and frequently over the past 35 years as a mission president and General Authority. I have never met a man with more integrity and a greater sense of fairness. His wisdom is the wisdom of Solomon.

“Much of the teaching and learning of General Authorities is done in informal settings. President Oaks has always been willing, while enjoying a bowl of soup in our lunchroom, to thoughtfully listen and share the lessons of life he has learned. My understanding of gospel principles and my perspective of complex issues have been powerfully shaped from President Oaks’ generous tutoring.

“President Oaks has a lovable sense of humor that is quickly appreciated in informal settings. Experiences of his childhood, his days as a student, his BYU years, and his long service in the Quorum of the Twelve are often punctuated with the surprising and the unexpected, bringing smiles to all in the conversation.

“In 1991, then-Elder Oaks visited our family serving a mission in Bordeaux, France. He had recently authored the book ‘The Lord’s Way,’ and following our weekend together, he sent a copy of the book to each of our children. The books were not only signed but included a personal handwritten message to each of the children. His generous gift has been treasured for 35 years.” — Elder Neil L. Andersen of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

The whole piece is very “North Korea”.

[drumdude]

Where are the revelations and miracles? Was a flight he was on ever set on fire and had to make an emergency landing?

Surely he can make up some stories and give the saints something to latch on to!

[MG 2.0]

In a bizarrely overt display of sycophancy the Church news has produced this piece of brown-nosing…

In marking the first anniversary of President Dallin H. Oaks’ prophetic leadership, the Church News invited members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles to share the leadership qualities they have observed from the Prophet.

Here is just one example of the flattery for Oaks…

“I personally interacted with President Oaks 53 years ago as a BYU student and frequently over the past 35 years as a mission president and General Authority. I have never met a man with more integrity and a greater sense of fairness. His wisdom is the wisdom of Solomon.

“Much of the teaching and learning of General Authorities is done in informal settings. President Oaks has always been willing, while enjoying a bowl of soup in our lunchroom, to thoughtfully listen and share the lessons of life he has learned. My understanding of gospel principles and my perspective of complex issues have been powerfully shaped from President Oaks’ generous tutoring.

“President Oaks has a lovable sense of humor that is quickly appreciated in informal settings. Experiences of his childhood, his days as a student, his BYU years, and his long service in the Quorum of the Twelve are often punctuated with the surprising and the unexpected, bringing smiles to all in the conversation.

“In 1991, then-Elder Oaks visited our family serving a mission in Bordeaux, France. He had recently authored the book ‘The Lord’s Way,’ and following our weekend together, he sent a copy of the book to each of our children. The books were not only signed but included a personal handwritten message to each of the children. His generous gift has been treasured for 35 years.” — Elder Neil L. Andersen of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

Jealous, are we?

Regards,
MG

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Here are some additional excerpts from people who personally knew Dallas:

From Lance, a survivor of the BYU electroshock/aversion therapy era of the 1970s:

I personally interacted with President Oaks 53 years ago as a BYU student, while campus security and administrators were actively hunting down and subjecting gay students to electroshock and conversion therapies under his watch. I have never met a man with a greater capacity to look the other way while he put electrodes on my nutsack and shocked me while forced to watch gay porn. Dallas Oak's idea of fairness was presiding over a campus climate of fear and expulsion, leaving scars (both mentally and on my genitals) that some of us have treasured for 50 years.

From Emily, a former public school teacher fired after Oaks' 1984 'The Lord's Way' teachings on homosexuality:

Much of the damage from President Oaks is done behind closed doors, but his public teachings on how society shouldn't tolerate gays in positions of power hit home when my school board chair cited his rhetoric to fire me. My understanding of institutional cruelty and my perspective on systemic bigotry were powerfully shaped by Oaks’ generous crusade to ensure women like me couldn't support ourselves or our families. It's too bad Dallas never sent me a signed book to commemorate my unemployment checks.

From a gay Latter-day Saint youth growing up in the 1990s and 2000s:

Dalla has a very specific sense of humor that is quickly appreciated if you happen to be on the winning side of his rhetoric. I experienced his leadership and his fiery conference addresses equating being gay to a war on the family. While growing up, my life was frequently punctuated by the surprising realization that the prophet of God views my very existence as a threat and a scourge. I lost many gay friends growing up in Utah to suicide. His generous legacy of exclusion has been bitterly treasured by an entire generation.

[MG 2.0]

Here are some additional excerpts from people who personally knew [President Oaks]:
*snip of unreferenced material.

President Oaks, as BYU’s president during a turbulent era of social change, was tasked with upholding the religious and moral standards set by the Board of Trustees and the broader Church. Also, during that time societal practices, beliefs, and medical norms regarding sexuality were vastly different than they are today. BYU had certain standards that were not aligned with the sexual preferences/practices that are now looked at with different eyes than it was through the existing Honor Code at the time.

President Oaks of BYU was just as much a man of his times as any other administrator at any another university (so was the Board of Trustees). What might be interesting is to compare and contrast the actions of BYU at this time with other universities, particularly religiously based universities.

Would you care to do a study and then return to give us the results?

Judging the 1970's through the lens of modern social conventions and practices is a bit unfair, don't you think?

BYU and administration has come a long way. We ought to give kudos for successes rather than condemn those that lived in the past...even if they happen to still be alive today.

Regards,
MG

[Dr. Shades]

Judging the 1970's through the lens of modern social conventions and practices is a bit unfair, don't you think?

When it comes to slavery as practiced in the 13 colonies just prior to the Revolutionary War, judging the 1770s through the lens of modern social conventions and practices is a bit unfair, don't you think?

[Philo Sofee]

Judging the 1970's through the lens of modern social conventions and practices is a bit unfair, don't you think?

When it comes to slavery as practiced in the 13 colonies just prior to the Revolutionary War, judging the 1770s through the lens of modern social conventions and practices is a bit unfair, don't you think?

Superb response. You beat me to it. THe Myopia of some in Mormonism never ceases to amaze me.

[Philo Sofee]

MG2.0:

President Oaks of BYU was just as much a man of his times as any other administrator at any another university (so was the Board of Trustees). What might be interesting is to compare and contrast the actions of BYU at this time with other universities, particularly religiously based universities.

Then so was the prophet who was presiding over him in that era. So, as has been told to Mormons for centuries now, and they continue to ignore it, the prophets are just ordinary men without any kind of special insight or spirit to guide them. I suspect your point heads off in that direction ow as well. So, what was it a prophet was for? Did God sleep through all that? Aren't prophets supposed to be like, well, you know, slightly ahead of the curve of normal everyday regular Joes because of their special connection to God? Perhaps have those extra little insights into things and how they ought to be better than just the men of their era and their practices and solutions to problems? I'm just askin is all.
The better comparison would be compare all the religious universities to the others and see what other kind of shenanigans were going on.

[MG 2.0]

MG2.0:

President Oaks of BYU was just as much a man of his times as any other administrator at any another university (so was the Board of Trustees). What might be interesting is to compare and contrast the actions of BYU at this time with other universities, particularly religiously based universities.

Then so was the prophet who was presiding over him in that era. So, as has been told to Mormons for centuries now, and they continue to ignore it, the prophets are just ordinary men without any kind of special insight or spirit to guide them. I suspect your point heads off in that direction ow as well. So, what was it a prophet was for? Did God sleep through all that? Aren't prophets supposed to be like, well, you know, slightly ahead of the curve of normal everyday regular Joes because of their special connection to God? Perhaps have those extra little insights into things and how they ought to be better than just the men of their era and their practices and solutions to problems? I'm just askin is all.
The better comparison would be compare all the religious universities to the others and see what other kind of shenanigans were going on.

I think that the strength of the criticisms you and Shades are projecting depends largely on what level of prophetic foresight one believes genuine prophetic authority ought to provide.

That's a question that seems to be open ended to some extent. Some would take the view that a prophet should see around every corner and receive revelation on every issue. Others take the position that prophets are people that are also subject to their environment and the opinions/actions of those around them. At times they see clearly and at other times through a glass darkly.

There are Biblical precedents for the second position. The first position is the one that for many seems to be the only correct choice because they would say/think that otherwise God is arbitrary and even cruel.

It's an ongoing conversation that has no easy resolution without a personal witness or answer from God through the scriptures or the Holy Ghost. And that is a personal path for each individual.

Regards,
MG

[Madison54]

Here are some additional excerpts from people who personally knew Dallas:

From Lance, a survivor of the BYU electroshock/aversion therapy era of the 1970s:

I personally interacted with President Oaks 53 years ago as a BYU student, while campus security and administrators were actively hunting down and subjecting gay students to electroshock and conversion therapies under his watch. I have never met a man with a greater capacity to look the other way while he put electrodes on my nutsack and shocked me while forced to watch gay porn. Dallas Oak's idea of fairness was presiding over a campus climate of fear and expulsion, leaving scars (both mentally and on my genitals) that some of us have treasured for 50 years.

As a freshman at BYU, I worked for the two doctors involved in this awful therapy (Dr. D. Eugene Thorne & Dr. Reed Payne). I was hired to be their receptionist in their private practice (they were partners). I only worked there a few months and hated it. I actually feared these two men as they were never nice or kind to me during the time I worked there.

I had to work late one night to get some letters typed for Thorne and he was there too. He didn't like that I stayed but he needed the letters to go out.
A patient came in (a young man) and went back into the therapy room with Thorne. I'll never forget what I heard. It wasn't long before I could hear him crying, screaming and then loudly vomiting. It was horrific.
All of a sudden the door flew open and he came running out with only his shirt on and carrying the rest of his clothes. He ran past me and out the door.

Payne immediately came out and started yelling at me for not stopping him and setting up another appointment. I gathered my stuff up and left.

The next morning, I asked an older lady who had worked there longer than I had (she was also a receptionist as I was just part time). She told me I'd overheard a new therapy that will cure a person of being gay. That they are given a drug that makes them sick and then shown gay porn. They start throwing up and will then associate that with gay thoughts, etc.

After she left, I went into Thorne's office (he wasn't there that day....both he and Payne were professors up at BYU, Thorne was the head of BYU’s Psych Department), needing an envelope. We were out of them at the front desk. I opened a closet door thinking it may be a supply closet and found the chair, projector and the electric shock wires & equipment. It freaked me out.

I immediately went out and called Thorne's number, left a message on his answering machine telling him I was quiting that day and wouldn't be back....and I wasn't.

It wasn't until many years later that I knew the extent of what these evil men had been doing, but it's well documented now with many witnesses naming them.

On another personal experience note.....

Oaks was my neighbor when he moved back to Provo (when he was put in as BYU Pres.). He lived across the street from us and I was a Junior in high school. He was as creepy then as he is now. He was also arrogant and cocky. I only went into their home once. It felt cold and off. His wife was nice though. They asked me to babysit their youngest daughter once and I said "no". No one in our ward liked him, but people did suck up to him.

Sounds like it's still happening