Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience

[Gadianton]

When I was in college, I submitted an article to the New Era (? I think that was the name of the youth mag at the time) about an experience at one of the large LDS pageants. A copy editor got in touch with me

That's some pretty heavy-duty Chapel Mormon credibility right there. I highly doubt any of the SeN guys submitted articles to the New Era.

[DrW]

When I was in college, I submitted an article to the New Era (? I think that was the name of the youth mag at the time) about an experience at one of the large LDS pageants. A copy editor got in touch with me, said he had made some edits, and wanted me to okay it. When I got the edited version back, to my shock it bore only the slightest resemblance to my original story, and was full of embellishments, exaggerations, and imho outright lies. But it was a better story, just no longer a true one. I refused the edits, the editor got pushy, I withdrew the piece.

Thanks, Lem. Never heard of this (editing for the Lord?). Come to think about it, quite a few talented LDS members I've known over the years have submitted material to LDS Church publications. Among all of these, I only know of one who has ever had anything accepted for publication. You may have just described one factor ("mandatory editorial assistance") in the seemingly high bar for acceptance.

[IHAQ]

Sheri Dew stands by her man...

Speaking from the Conference Center in downtown Salt Lake City and flanked by portraits of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, Sister Dew bore witness of the unique privilege of having prophets on the earth today.

“I know that President Russell M. Nelson is a prophet of God and that his counselors in the First Presidency and each member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles are also prophets, seers and revelators. I testify that you can know for yourself that this is true, if you will seek a witness of your own,” she said.

https://www.thechurchnews.com/living-fa ... ets-219284

Those who choose pundits over prophets choose “foolish and blind guides” (Helaman 13:29) rather than seers, whose ordination allows them to see things others can’t. “Prophets are one of God’s greatest gifts to His children. They form an unfailing safety net of truth,” Sister Dew said.

It's interesting that she can say that after being forced to remove one story from the autobiography of Nelson that she wrote on his behalf because it simply wasn't true. She knows he didn't tell the truth about that story, and now we have evidence that another anecdote in her Book Of Nelson is made up. On what basis should we be taking her word that Nelson can be trusted to tell the truth, when we know that she knows he can't?

In September 2020, when the pandemic was raging without an end in sight, Sister Dew was invited to be part of a Zoom meeting with President Nelson, Elder Ronald A. Rasband of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and Michael Colemere, the managing director of Church Communications, where they discussed the possibility of President Nelson recording a message of hope for Church members.

President Nelson told them to “sprinkle a little fertilizer” on the idea and bring it back to him the following week. However, the next day, President Nelson said he’d received a strong impression that he needed to record a message for the world, not just members.

A little fertilizer indeed...

[DrW]

Sheri Dew stands by her man...
....

President Nelson told them to “sprinkle a little fertilizer” on the idea and bring it back to him the following week. However, the next day, President Nelson said he’d received a strong impression that he needed to record a message for the world, not just members.

A little fertilizer indeed...

Dairy farmers in Utah and Idaho know that bovine sourced organic fertilizer is plentiful, inexpensive, and works just fine. Apparently there is a certain LDS Church leader who believes the same.

[Dr Moore]

I’ve been thinking about how Nelson vividly remembered the pilot notifying passengers about passing the halfway point to St. George, “the point of no return.”

Yet he never recounts anything else the pilot said from there on out.

Surely the pilot was communicating with passengers throughout.

Maybe Nelson was so stuck in his own head, so scared of dying, he couldn’t hear any of the pilot’s words.

[DrW]

I’ve been thinking about how Nelson vividly remembered the pilot notifying passengers about passing the halfway point to St. George, “the point of no return.”

Me too. I've flown some two million miles over more than 50 years on dozens of different airlines in scores of countries and I have never heard a pilot say anything about the "point of no return". And I would venture to guess that no one reading this post has heard those words from a pilot either.

The only time I have ever recall hearing those words with regard to an airline flight was in the dramatic 1954 movie, "The High and the Mighty", starring John Wayne.

“The High and the Mighty” isn’t only a classic John Wayne flick; it’s also the definitive pioneering effort in the evolution of the modern disaster film. Dan Roman (Wayne) plays a veteran airline pilot who started flying way back in 1917. He loses his captain’s stripes as a result of a crash that claims the lives of all of the passengers, including his wife and child. Now flying as a copilot, he boards a DC-4 in Honolulu, its destination being San Francisco. Just as the airliner passes the point of no return , disaster strikes, resulting in the loss of an engine and a fuel leak that makes it doubtful that the aircraft will reach its destination. The drama unfolds at 9,000 feet, where in addition to the emergency, Roman must deal with ghosts from his past, a captain who loses his nerve, and a cabin full of terrified passengers.

A "point of no return" (half way point) is of relevance on a transoceanic flight, or other flights over uninhabited or hostile terrain, where the only two choices for landing if there is a problem are (1) the airport you departed from or (2) the one you are headed to. If a problem occurs past the point of no return, it simply means that it is safer to continue to the destination airport rather than turn around and go back. On trans-Pacific flights, there are only a few routes with alternates closer than the destination airport. Honolulu to SFO has none.

In commercial aviation, every flight needs to list an alternate in the flight plan in case of weather or an emergency at the destination airport. The aircraft must also have sufficient fuel on board (normally at least 45 minutes worth) to safely make the alternate if needed. Gander in Newfoundland ended up being such an alternate airport for many of the inbound trans-Atlantic flights on 911.

Flying from SLC to St. George there are at least two alternate airports, Delta Municipal and Cedar City. There was no relevant "point of no return" on the SLC to St. George route. It was not an matter of "St. George or SLC". Russell M. Nelson's flight ended up landing at Delta Municipal which, as pointed out upthread, would have been their primary alternate airport. It was neither the origin or the destination airport for their flight. The chances that the pilot of Russell M. Nelson's flight mentioned a "point of no return" are about as likely as most of the rest of the tale.
__________

Come to think about it, there was this one snowy evening at clogged Chicago O’Hare when, having been aboard the aircraft and taxiing for takeoff for probably 45 minutes, the Captain came on and made something like to following announcement, “Well Ladies and Gentlemen, we are now halfway into our scheduled flight time to Atlanta and should be taking off any minute now.”

[Dr Moore]

I’ve been thinking about how Nelson vividly remembered the pilot notifying passengers about passing the halfway point to St. George, “the point of no return.”

Me too. I've flown some two million miles over more than 50 years on dozens of different airlines in scores of countries and I have never heard a pilot say anything about the "point of no return". And I would venture to guess that no one reading this post has heard those words from a pilot either.

The only time I have ever recall hearing those words with regard to an airline flight was in the dramatic 1954 movie, "The High and the Mighty", starring John Wayne.

Great reference, DrW! (Movie released in 1954, Nelson surely saw it as a young 30 year old)

My point was less about the ridiculousness of a "point of no return" announcement, rather about the fact that Nelson recalls precisely none of what the pilot said after the engine failure occurred.

I guess it doesn't fit the desired narrative to recall the pilot's reassuring words about feathering the prop, flying safely on one engine, assuring the passengers of safety despite whatever yaw or turbulence occurred during the corrective actions, and re-assuring passengers the plane was perfectly capable of continuing on or returning to SLC but would follow the book by landing at the nearest airport as a precaution.

[Lem]

Me too. I've flown some two million miles over more than 50 years on dozens of different airlines in scores of countries and I have never heard a pilot say anything about the "point of no return". And I would venture to guess that no one reading this post has heard those words from a pilot either.

The only time I have ever recall hearing those words with regard to an airline flight was in the dramatic 1954 movie, "The High and the Mighty", starring John Wayne.

Great reference, DrW! (Movie released in 1954, Nelson surely saw it as a young 30 year old)….

Especially since the costar Laraine Day was an LDS woman:

Born La Raine Johnson in Roosevelt, Utah, on October 13, 1920, she was one of eight children in a wealthy family who were members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.[1]

…Laraine Day was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). Throughout her life, she never swore, smoked, or drank any kind of alcohol, coffee, or tea. Until her death in 2007, she retained her Mormon faith…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laraine_Day

[Gabriel]

Bill Reel and RFM will broadcasting today at 5:20 PST.

Watch "Mormonism LIVE: 033: President Nelson's Flight of Death" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/fz4iQk1M9l4

[Dr Moore]

Me too. I've flown some two million miles over more than 50 years on dozens of different airlines in scores of countries and I have never heard a pilot say anything about the "point of no return". And I would venture to guess that no one reading this post has heard those words from a pilot either.

DrW, maybe you never heard a pilot say this with respect to reaching the "half way" point because the PNR, or "point of no return," has a specific meaning for pilots, and that meaning is specifically NOT the half-way point. Does Nelson mean to say his pilot was an idiot? If you have a reference to pilot training manuals from the 1970s, that might be helpful. Evidently, pilots routinely calculated the PNR for flight plans, based on wind, fuel, load, other airports, etc. Visually, PNR would be something like 60-80% of the way to destination, depending on various factors.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/point_of_no_return
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/point-of-no-return
https://www.avfacts.com.au/editorial/pnr/default.asp
https://code7700.com/psr.htm
https://www.airsafaris.com.au/general_information/pnrcp.htm

Maybe Nelson learned the term a year after his flight while reading this 1977 book, "Joseph Smith, Martyr, Prophet of God" published by Deseret Book. In this book's usage, it would imply half-way across the perilous river.
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Jo ... frontcover