Gun Violence

[ajax18]

That's a tough one. On the one hand, I'm perfectly fine with her not getting vaccinated. Go Delta! I'll bet she pulled an Ajax and got vaccinated though.

You live in an alternate reality. I got vaccinated to satisfy the authoritarian left and keep my job. I had already had Covid and was completely asymptomatic. Vaccination does nothing once you've had the disease. It didn't help me nor any of the people I shared airspace with. It's a waste of time, money, and resources but I knew it wasn't going to hurt me either. It made the patients feel more comfortable just like those who think their cloth mask protects them from Covid and is worth getting a foggy inaccurate refraction.

[Res Ipsa]

That's a tough one. On the one hand, I'm perfectly fine with her not getting vaccinated. Go Delta! I'll bet she pulled an Ajax and got vaccinated though.

You live in an alternate reality. I got vaccinated to satisfy the authoritarian left and keep my job. I had already had Covid and was completely asymptomatic. Vaccination does nothing once you've had the disease. It didn't help me nor any of the people I shared airspace with. It's a waste of time, money, and resources but I knew it wasn't going to hurt me either. It made the patients feel more comfortable just like those who think their cloth mask protects them from Covid and is worth getting a foggy inaccurate refraction.

You work for the authoritarian left?

You still keep saying stuff about vaccines that isn’t factual. You have no idea what the strength and duration of disease-caused immunity is, especially for asymptomatic cases. If you have evidence otherwise, please link to it.

[ajax18]

You work for the authoritarian left?

I thought you had me on ignore? But yeah, the authoritarian left and your favorite EAllusion wanted myself and others charged with murder for going to work during this pandemic.

You still keep saying stuff about vaccines that isn’t factual. You have no idea what the strength and duration of disease-caused immunity is, especially for asymptomatic cases. If you have evidence otherwise, please link to it.

Disease caused immunity is stronger than the vaccine according to quite a few specialists who aren't paid for and brought by the left. And to me that makes sense that it is, so that's my belief. That Gad continues to construct this fallacy that I got vaccinated because I was secretly scared of Covid is what I'm taking issue with specifically.

And while you're at it, show me the evidence that cloth masks protect kids from a surgically masked and vaccinated eye doctor from dying or becoming permanently disabled due to COVID, assuming the kid turns out to be one of the 300 kids in a country of 350 million people who died from COVID.

I understand that's going to be difficult since the Democrat CDC currently has control of what data the public is allowed to see and what it isn't.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

EAllusion wanted myself and others charged with murder for going to work during this pandemic.

CFR

Disease caused immunity is stronger than the vaccine according to quite a few specialists who aren't paid for and brought by the left.

CFR, especially with regard to these specialists

show me the evidence that cloth masks

CFR that masks don’t work

CDC currently has control of what data the public is allowed to see and what it isn't.

CFR where you’re getting this paranoia from

- Doc

[Gadianton]

Sorry H for derailing your thread, I'll respond to Ajax elsewhere.

[Atlanticmike]

Gun violence is almost a constant in the current news cycle, raising the question of what is going on now that is different from before? So I thought it might be valuable to share resources and thoughts on this other pandemic.

First, here's an article reporting on 2020 where May 2020, two months into the pandemic, saw the highest number of mass shootings since they were tracked:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... blogHeader

Firearm fatalities increased significantly in April (16 percent) and May (15 percent) compared to the same months in 2019, even while many Americans spent their days sheltered at home, according to new data from the Gun Violence Archive compiled exclusively for NBC News. Those deaths followed unprecedented spikes in gun purchases in March, a trend that continued in April.

"May 2020 has officially had the highest number of mass shootings (56) of any month since we started tracking mass shooting data in 2013,” the Gun Violence Archive said on May 31. The study defines mass shootings as four or more shot and/or killed in a single event.

Whatever is behind it, the spike started over a year ago. 2020 ended with the highest number of people killed in over 20 years:

https://time.com/5922082/2020-gun-viole ... cord-year/

Gun violence and gun crime has, in particular, risen drastically, with over 19,000 people killed in shootings and firearm-related incidents in 2020. That’s the highest death toll in over 20 years, according to data from the Gun Violence Archive (GVA), an online site that collects gun violence data, and the Britannia Group’s non-partisan site procon.org.

This total includes victims of homicides and unintentional deaths but does not include gun suicides. And despite there being no “large-scale” shootings in 2020, the number of mass shootings—which are classified as an incident in which four or more people are shot and injured or killed—has actually risen, drastically, to over 600, the most in the past 5 years and a nearly 50% increase in 2019’s total.


The above article makes an interesting distinction, noting the difference between large-scale mass shootings and incidents where four or more people die due to being shot.

This seems to be the main reason 2020 had relatively little of the kind of reporting we are currently seeing as major shootings such as occured in the El Paso walmart shooting in August 2019 were missing in 2020, leading to the Florida spa shootings this March being seen as kicking off a wave of mass shooting events which raise awareness of smaller mass shootings as the news cycle moves to cover the violence.

Why bring it up? I don't know. The recent reporting made me curious about gun violence in 2020, and what may be going on. I was surprised to find out it was as violent as it turned out to have been.

Hey honorentheos, as far as school shootings go, let me run this buy you. What if we give school teachers the option to attend their cities police academy and if they complete the training they can be given leo status or be deputized? They'll be given a badge and a gun and required to qualify with their weapon annually just like a police officer. I know two teachers who would do just that as long as they're compensated fairly. One of the teachers I know keeps a pistol in the trunk of his car right now while on school property. Lets say a typical school has 30 teachers and 6 staff members. Arming 10 of those individuals would decrease School shootings down to almost nothing in my opinion. What if we did this across the country? Another option would be to allow retired police and military members with combat training to volunteer to walk the halls and stand at the entrances of every school in the city. There's many retired Patriots who would volunteer to take on that task without thinking twice about it.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

This is why it’s a waste of time engaging Ajax:

EAllusion wanted myself and others charged with murder for going to work during this pandemic.

CFR

Disease caused immunity is stronger than the vaccine according to quite a few specialists who aren't paid for and brought by the left.

CFR, especially with regard to these specialists

show me the evidence that cloth masks

CFR that masks don’t work

CDC currently has control of what data the public is allowed to see and what it isn't.

CFR where you’re getting this paranoia from

- Doc

He never backs up anything he posts, he makes nonsense claims with no context, and when asked to provide more information or a reference he just moves on to another complaint.

-_-

- Doc

[honorentheos]

Hi Altanticmike,

Lets say a typical school has 30 teachers and 6 staff members. Arming 10 of those individuals would decrease School shootings down to almost nothing in my opinion.

You'll forgive me if this made me tongue-in-cheek wonder what kind of school this was now where school shootings needed to be reduced to "almost nothing" from however many there were now? It must be rather frequent given the option of having regular gun battles in classrooms between teachers and others is a viable option for bringing the number down to a non-zero frequency the community could live with. Is this school in Syria?

Joking aside, I don't believe adding firearms to the situation is a preferable solution in the same way using a tourniquet to stop bleeding should be seen as a less preferable solution to stopping bleeding. The solution includes doing addition, irreparable harm as a triage decision. Do we really need to triage our children's safety?

So what is wrong with solutions that push for gun laws that focus in the responsibility side of gun ownership? Safety training required for purchases? Insurance for accidental death or injury needing to be carried for every firearm one possesses? If we do this for cars, why not firearms whose safe use is beneficial but where lack of training or unsafe use can easily be fatal? What if our children heard their parents talk about safe gun use and adult gun culture participation in a way that mirrored taking about safe driving rather than diatribes about LEOs trying to curtail their freedoms to drive as fast as they want wherever they want because they have rights as individuals that override societal impacts? What if we tried to not put a tourniquet on school shootings but instead sought to make the probability of massive injuries where a tourniquet begins to make sense far less likely to happen?

[canpakes]

Lets say a typical school has 30 teachers and 6 staff members. Arming 10 of those individuals would decrease School shootings down to almost nothing in my opinion. What if we did this across the country?

This sounds like it’s intended to be more of a deterrent, but I don’t know that this will always work, given that some shooters have accepted that this is their death plan anyway … and given that some have been armed with long guns and firing from a distance. Likely, Bob the Gym teacher’s Glock 19 may not be so effective when he has to shoot across the soccer field and into the trees where Crazy Student has staked out a hidey hole while plinking students.

As well, it would be best to figure out how LEOs arriving on the scene will know who not to shoot at in an active shooter situation, if fire is still being exchanged.

Above all, I’m not sure why school security couldn’t be assigned this responsibility (or set up on the first place) rather than assuming armed teachers will conveniently offer any special protection for the kids.

[Res Ipsa]

Lets say a typical school has 30 teachers and 6 staff members. Arming 10 of those individuals would decrease School shootings down to almost nothing in my opinion. What if we did this across the country?

This sounds like it’s intended to be more of a deterrent, but I don’t know that this will always work, given that some shooters have accepted that this is their death plan anyway … and given that some have been armed with long guns and firing from a distance. Likely, Bob the Gym teacher’s Glock 19 may not be so effective when he has to shoot across the soccer field and into the trees where Crazy Student has staked out a hidey hole while plinking students.

As well, it would be best to figure out how LEOs arriving on the scene will know who not to shoot at in an active shooter situation, if fire is still being exchanged.

Above all, I’m not sure why school security couldn’t be assigned this responsibility (or set up on the first place) rather than assuming armed teachers will conveniently offer any special protection for the kids.

I think the number of shooting victims at schools would stay about the same or increase. School shooters know that their odds of getting out alive are pretty low, so where's the deterrent? All arming teachers would do is let school shooters know to shoot the teachers first. Yay! Plus, there will inevitably be children wounded and killed by gun accidents. (Just as a recent example, take the mother who was shot during a zoom call.) In addition, all it takes is for one of these trained teachers to snap, and you have a whole classroom full of dead kids killed by their teacher.

Even in a school shooting, add in the normal chaos and confusion that makes the chance of friendly fire skyrocket. When law enforcement arrives, how do they tell which are the good guys with guns and which are the bad guys with guns. And it would be surprising at all to see a teacher fire at the sight of a gun before they realize that the person holding the gun is a fellow teacher.

Not to mention that, in public schools, teachers are government employees. I don't want armed agents of the government put in charge of my children's school class.

Dumb idea that will bankrupt a school district the first time a kid is killed with the teacher's firearm.