Holland's second "scolding" at BYU

[Dr Moore]

Here is the video of his recent BYU speech given to BYU faculty. While he claims it was intended to reduce divisiveness, the consequence of this speech will inevitably be much more divisiveness. But I think his goal is to stop contention by silencing one side of the contending, at least insofar as BYU faculty are concerned.

At the first scolding, given to the MI staff, Holland asked for a "scholarly hand" to always be in the face of critics. Here this week, Holland makes a call to BYU faculty to build BYU with a "trowel in one hand and musket in the other." Dangerous precedent being set on multiple levels.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... conference

A few lowlights:

BYU should be and will be willing to lose accreditation and its standing in professional circles over its insistence on standing against gay rights and advocacy (ie, against science)
https://youtu.be/CUEBJ3NdaCs?t=2074

The Trustees (Q15) have spent "hours!" discussing what the doctrine of the church can and can't provide -- they've "shed more tears" than they could possibly convey. Therefore, they are justified in banning symbols and parades and the use of graduation podiums for any and all forms of advocacy and activism. It's censorship earned by the shared tears of the leaders, I guess.
https://youtu.be/CUEBJ3NdaCs?t=1374

Despite the fact that the LDS church has and continues to inflict cruelty on LGBTQ+ members and BYU students, Holland weepily shifts blame for all of the "unkindness" and "crushingly cruel" actions toward those struggling with the "same sex challenge" on the world. The church has only been engaged in effort to offer love and hope, while keeping obedience to the gospel "evident" in everyone's life. Barf.
https://youtu.be/CUEBJ3NdaCs?t=1494

Love and empathy cannot be interpreted as condoning or advocacy. Christ never withheld his love, but he never once said "because I love you, you are exempt from keeping my commandments." We are asked to keep that balance. (In other words, we demand to have our cake and eat it too) Even more barf.
https://youtu.be/CUEBJ3NdaCs?t=1567

Friendly musket fire analogy... Holland is sending a message that teachers cannot speak out as some have been. Flag holding and parades "ought not to be, not here."
https://youtu.be/CUEBJ3NdaCs?t=1620

[Dr Moore]

Who knows if they'll keep the comments section alive on this video. Here's a sample of one side of the comments. Devastating development for all BYU alumni.

BYU is finished. I am an alumnus so it pains my heart to say so.
If you want to educate your children with testimonies attached check out the Institue of Religion programs at Hillsdale College, New Saint Andrew's and College of The Ozarks.

This all REALLY started back in 1910 when George Brimhall was president of BYU. Boyd K. Packer talks about this in his address to BYU faculty, staff and administration: "The Snow-White Birds". (Copy and paste to read this awesome talk: The Snow-White Birds - Boyd K. Packer)

The event horizon has been crossed. The desire to tiptoe to the line has caused the University to slowly be sucked into the abyss.

My head and heart are hurting for those who will be feeling unloved and unwanted by this talk.

"[We] have spent more time and spent more tears on this topic than we could adequately convey on this topic [Marriage & Family]." You've spent more time and tears than you can describe? Hours you say? I've spent nearly a decade wrestling with this issue. I can't count the tears shed or the time spent on my knees. And you are telling me that you, a straight white man, have spent more time than you can describe?
The world is cruel to us, you say, but it's very odd - you describe aiming muskets at us and those who support us. We should avoid conflict and divisive subjects, but you are more than happy to call us an issue. You call out a man who came out to his graduating class at the pulpit, but you are allowed to speak as much as you like to claim you love "same-sex attracted" members of the church while simultaneously calling us an issue and a place of division.
You used to be my favorite apostle. But it's become clear to me that you have actually hurt me more than "the world" ever did....

Imagine being gay and hearing this. So heart breaking

my heart goes out to my lgbt friends who have been deeply hurt by the musket remark. i hope you will know that there are members in the church who love you & support you. more importantly, Christ loves you & created you.

I am ashamed of this talk and BYU. A university should be a place where ideas can be questioned. The church has or claims no revelation on marriage that it continues to follow Joseph Smith didn’t follow D&C section 132 with his polygamy which is the closest thing to a revelation the church has canonized on marriage and Brigham Young, the BYU’s own namesake taught doctrine that now BYU students would be excommunicated for following on marriage. Holland talks of following doctrine but there is no pathway for LGBTQ members to be exalted yet the Church now acknowledges that being gay or lesbian is not a choice for most who identify as such. The younger generations understand that it is not a sin and it is a civil right to allow gays to marry. The problem here is obedience and loyalty to an outdated, hurtful, and bigoted heteronormative perspective and an inability to adapt a culture to a more compassionate and moral position.

Why must you refer to homosexuality as an "issue?" The only "challenge" with being gay is the fact that I felt complete guilt for my actions because I grew up with the church TELLING me that I will feel guilty of those things...now that I have nothing to do with the church or god, I have never been happier!

ew.

I have tried for so long to stay within this church and to share and teach what I have learned from my experiences with Christ. But I feel so bleakly unwelcome hearing this talk.

when will the church stop talking down on lgbtq people. even though the church claims to love us, i feel hated. im avoided at church. i can feel stares of hate, all coming from peers in my own ward. this isn't the love you claim it to be. discrimination is discrimination.

25 years from now, after the "revelation" that God loves all his children, LGBTQ or straight, and they are allowed to be married, sealed, and fully participate in the church, this talk will be dismissed as the prejudice of a single person speaking as a man and not as a prophet. It will disappear down the memory hole.

And here's the DezNat view

It’s about time the wolves among BYU’s faculty got called out by a prominent church leader. But will any be let go?

[Res Ipsa]

I think "faithful education" and "academic education" have been at war at BYU for a long time. The scope of discretion given to instructors waxes and wanes over time, depending on who is in charge and who is paying attention. The waxing largely takes place sub silentio, with certain instructors pushing against the boundaries. The waning is more visible, as the leaders rein in the instructors.

This is part of the reining in.

[drumdude]

They’ll defend this hill as far as they can, but they aren’t going to die on it. It is way, WAY more important for the church to be profitable than it is for the church to stand for anything.

Just like blacks and the priesthood, this will change. This is not the hill the church is going to die on. You can already see that with the gay children policy reversal.

This feels like simply pandering to the conservative base in the wake of the pro-vaccine message.

[Lem]

From the transcript:

Three years later, 2017, Elder Dallin H. Oaks, not then but soon to be in the First Presidency where he would sit, only one chair — one heartbeat — away from the same position President Nelson now has, quoted our colleague Elder Neal A. Maxwell who had said:

“In a way[,] [Latter-day Saint] scholars at BYU and elsewhere are a little bit like the builders of the temple in Nauvoo, who worked with a trowel in one hand and a musket in the other. Today scholars building the temple of learning must also pause on occasion to defend the kingdom. I personally think,” Elder Maxwell went on to say, “this is one of the reasons the Lord established and maintains this university. The dual role of builder and defender is unique and ongoing. I am grateful we have scholars today who can handle, as it were, both trowels and muskets.”[10]

Then Elder Oaks said challengingly, “I would like to hear a little more musket fire from this temple of learning.”[11] He said this in a way that could have applied to a host of topics in various departments, but the one he specifically mentioned was the doctrine of the family and defending marriage as the union of a man and a woman. Little did he know that while many would hear his appeal, especially the School of Family Life who moved quickly and visibly to assist, some others fired their muskets all right, but unfortunately didn’t always aim at those hostile to the Church.

That will appeal to the DezNat crowd.

From the following paragraph:

I and many of my Brethren have spent more time and shed more tears on this subject than we could ever adequately convey...

So, it is with scar tissue of our own that we are trying to avoid — and hope all will try to avoid — language, symbols, and situations that are more divisive than unifying at the very time we want to show love for all of God’s children.

But language and symbols like encouraging musket fire against those "hostile to the Church" is okay. Unreal.

[Lem]

I think "faithful education" and "academic education" have been at war at BYU for a long time. The scope of discretion given to instructors waxes and wanes over time, depending on who is in charge and who is paying attention. The waxing largely takes place sub silentio, with certain instructors pushing against the boundaries. The waning is more visible, as the leaders rein in the instructors.

This is part of the reining in.

Speaking of reining in, I still recall a BYU accounting professor saying, in the driest voice possible and with eyes he was visibly trying not to roll, something along these lines:

"in the course evaluation you will be asked to fill out, one of the questions is: 'did your professor instill gospel values in his lectures'? Sadly, I am unaware of how to directly imbue accounting methodology with principles of the gospel, other than to assure you that every lecture I prepared was done so with the light of Christ shining brightly in my mind."

It was a surreal moment for a very sheltered Mormon girl. I can only imagine what it is like now.

[Res Ipsa]

I think "faithful education" and "academic education" have been at war at BYU for a long time. The scope of discretion given to instructors waxes and wanes over time, depending on who is in charge and who is paying attention. The waxing largely takes place sub silentio, with certain instructors pushing against the boundaries. The waning is more visible, as the leaders rein in the instructors.

This is part of the reining in.

Speaking of reining in, I still recall a BYU accounting professor saying, in the driest voice possible and with eyes he was visibly trying not to roll, something along these lines:

"in the course evaluation you will be asked to fill out, one of the questions is: 'did your professor instill gospel values in his lectures'? Sadly, I am unaware of how to directly imbue accounting methodology with principles of the gospel, other than to assure you that every lecture I prepared was done so with the light of Christ shining brightly in my mind."

It was a surreal moment for a very sheltered Mormon girl. I can only imagine what it is like now.

Wow! May I ask which year? I went for one year: 1976-77, and I can't recall anything like that on a course evaluation. It's possible I just don't remember that question being on a course evaluation or things changed over time.

[Lem]

May I ask which year?

Early 80s .

[drumdude]

Do you guys feel embarrassed to tell people your degree is from BYU?

[dastardly stem]

Let's see,

1. the Church begins the process of divisiveness by crying out against and fighting tooth and nail against LBGTQ.

2. Years go by and the Church's position looks more and more like bigotry and nothing more.

3. Holland, speaking at BYU in 2021, complains that those members who show support for LGBTQ are causing division and advocates defenders take up muskets to defend the Church's truth claims (or whatever), against members who have waved some flags or marched in a parade in support of their LGBTQ brothers and sisters.

And, what, everyone looking on is supposed to be like, "oh that's nice. Holland cried for the "struggles" and "challenges" "same-sex" folks face". Does he not realize the cause of their struggles and challenges is not because of their orientation but because, at least in part, of his teachings?

"its not my fault. I mean people who disagree with the Church should be at fault."