Dear Dr. Shades :-) Board Business

[Res Ipsa]

If I remember correctly, it was nothing to do with ducks:

No, Ceebs. You are being stalked by ducks. There's a pictured of a pissed off duck next to every one of your posts!

[ceeboo]

No, Ceebs. You are being stalked by ducks. There's a pictured of a pissed off duck next to every one of your posts!

(OMG - You're right - That duck really does look pissed!)

[Doctor Scratch]

There were a variety of factors that led to him leaving the board formerly known as MDB--or what is now known as the Discuss Mormonism board. For one thing, he'd had a series of conflicts with people and had made a number of very serious missteps, including meddling in the family life of a poster which resulted in legitimate family conflicts. Long story short: legal action was threatened, tempers flared, and at the end of the day, I think, DCP was just getting worn out and couldn't stand the heat, and so he left--at least temporarily. There have been dozens of times over the years where he has erupted with anger and pounded out a rage-fueled PM or email, or where he's threatened to sue or "go after the board," or whatever else. But he always comes sulking back.

At that time, though, If I recall correctly, he *was* still "engaging" with the board: he would still read it obsessively and would start threads over at Mormon Dialogue and Discussion. There was a period of time leading up to his expulsion from the Maxwell Institute where tidbits began to leak out--e.g., about budget shortfalls at the Maxwell Institute (he later told Bradford that "the Institute leaks like a sieve" despite repeatedly saying on the message boards that all of the rumors were "lies") and that sort of thing. Meanwhile, rumors were swirling that he was being taken to task by the Brethren--or by other Church leaders--who were telling him and the other Mopologists that they needed to cool their jets and quit embarrassing the Church online with their antics.

Eventually he tired of participating on MD&D and decided to launch his blog, and that's where he has stayed--most likely because it gives him more control over who is permitted to criticize him. He is pretty liberal with the blog's "Ban" function. Really, though, nothing has changed: he's still every bit as obsessed with reading the critics, picking fights with them, and so on. The manner by which he does so has changed somewhat (as Dean Robbers pointed out above), but the basic motivation is still the same.

That’s fascinating. So if he’s tracking this then he’s likely (or at least possible) that he’s also tracking what these other critical Latter-Day Saint scholars and influencers are saying.

Sort of. What I think you need to understand is that there is really a whole "network" of Mopologists who are "tracking" critics--it's something that's embedded into the culture. You know about the Strengthening Church Members Committee, I assume? Well, Dr. Peterson was recruited to serve as an "agent" for this committee at one point, and he himself (i.e., DCP) publicly stated that he was involved in an "interrogation" of a wavering member that went on for something like 4 hours.

Meanwhile, the people at FAIR used to have something called "The Mormon Defense League," or something ridiculous like that, and its purpose was to track down/monitor critics, and perhaps to try and get them in trouble with their local leadership. One example would be a guy whose name, If I recall correctly, was David--his last name escapes me--but he went on the record, saying that he had evidence that Scott Gordon had gone to people in SLC in an effort to get him into trouble.

And then there was John Dehlin: Trevor Holyoak was monitoring Dehlin's Facebook feed and collecting quotes off of it for Greg Smith to use in his "hit piece." So, yes: DCP does do *some* monitoring of critics, but a lot of this work is sort of "farmed out" to other Mopologists. Another example would be the "Neville Neville Land" blog. DCP happily links to this stalker site on a near-daily basis, and he's glad to do so, since somebody else is doing the dirty work for him.

Did the controversy have anything to do with that Kiwi post-member scholar or was that someone else? Or is this the Dehlin thing?

It depends on what you're referring to, but the "Kiwi Mormon" (i.e., Gina Colvin) thing, was a Louis Midgley controversy, just as Dean Robbers indicated.

One other thing I think is odd is how unaware the more orthodox apologists seem as to the broader shifts happening within the church outside of the USA.

The Church, including its apologetic organizations, have always ben US-centric.

[drumdude]

DCP publicly stated that he was involved in an "interrogation" of a wavering member that went on for something like 4 hours.

Jesus Christ. What a fracking cult.

[ceeboo]

DCP publicly stated that he was involved in an "interrogation" of a wavering member that went on for something like 4 hours.

Jesus Christ. What a fracking cult.

I really can't even imagine how that 4 hour scenario would go down. It's beyond crazy!

Who is present at this "interrogation?" Where is it being conducted? And why would anybody sit there and allow it to continue?

[Doctor Scratch]

Jesus Christ. What a fracking cult.

I really can't even imagine how that 4 hour scenario would go down. It's beyond crazy!

Who is present at this "interrogation?" Where is it being conducted? And why would anybody sit there and allow it to continue?

DCP described the events as innocently as I imagine one could, given the circumstances. Basically, it sounded like he (DCP) was contacted by someone from the SCMC (he refused to say who it was, or perhaps the person didn't say their name), and asked to go and meet with this "wavering member." It sounded like they went to a ward building, or stake center, or something like that--some place where they could chat in private--and had the meeting. I'm not sure who else was there, but I got the impression that there was another pro-Church party in the room--after all, they were trying to make sure that this person *didn't* leave the Church. Dr. Peterson has always tried to dispel any notion that the goings-on were "creepy" or "cult-like" or "worrisome," but I think reasonable people can decide for themselves. The facts that stand out for me are:

--They never told the guy that the SCMC was "pulling the strings" behind the scenes.
--The meeting went on for *four hours.*
--The person that the SCMC tapped to do this was DCP--Chief Mopologist and editor of the FARMS Review. Given the FARMS crew's track record in dealing with critics, you have to wonder why the SCMC leadership went this route. To be honest, it makes me think that DCP's actual task was to ring information out of the guy--to figure out how much of a "risk" he was--rather than to try and "rescue" his testimony.
--The SCMC has always been, essentially, a "spying" arm of the Church.
--Think about this bit for a moment: "he refused to say who it was, or perhaps the person didn't say their name". How many times have you been phoned up by some nameless bureaucrat in the Church, and told that you needed to go interrogate some poor sap? And then you follow through and do it? It just doesn't get any more disquieting that this.

So, yeah: welcome to Creep City. And as I recall, Midgley was asked to do the SCMC's bidding as well at some point. I'm reminded of the scene early in Apocalypse Now where Willard is told that he's going to need to "terminate the Colonel with extreme prejudice." Willard, with a cigarette dangling from his lip, stares back at them, astonished, and nods his head in agreement.

[Canadiandude2]

~
Sort of. What I think you need to understand is that there is really a whole "network" of Mopologists who are "tracking" critics--it's something that's embedded into the culture. You know about the Strengthening Church Members Committee, I assume? Well, Dr. Peterson was recruited to serve as an "agent" for this committee at one point, and he himself (i.e., DCP) publicly stated that he was involved in an "interrogation" of a wavering member that went on for something like 4 hours.

Meanwhile, the people at FAIR used to have something called "The Mormon Defense League," or something ridiculous like that, and its purpose was to track down/monitor critics, and perhaps to try and get them in trouble with their local leadership. One example would be a guy whose name, If I recall correctly, was David--his last name escapes me--but he went on the record, saying that he had evidence that Scott Gordon had gone to people in SLC in an effort to get him into trouble.

And then there was John Dehlin: Trevor Holyoak was monitoring Dehlin's Facebook feed and collecting quotes off of it for Greg Smith to use in his "hit piece." So, yes: DCP does do *some* monitoring of critics, but a lot of this work is sort of "farmed out" to other Mopologists. Another example would be the "Neville Neville Land" blog. DCP happily links to this stalker site on a near-daily basis, and he's glad to do so, since somebody else is doing the dirty work for him.

~

It depends on what you're referring to, but the "Kiwi Mormon" (i.e., Gina Colvin) thing, was a Louis Midgley controversy, just as Dean Robbers indicated.

~

The Church, including its apologetic organizations, have always ben US-centric.

Thank you for this. That makes a lot of sense. I’ve heard of the Committee but not the MDL, and yeah, I got confused and was referring to Louis Midgley and Gina Colvin.

Edit: Sorry- let me see if I can reformat this so it takes up less space…

[Doctor Scratch]

David Twede was the person whose name I was trying to recall: he said that Scott Gordon was doing some kind of finagling with Church leadership that was aimed at getting him into trouble.

[Lem]

....--The SCMC has always been, essentially, a "spying" arm of the Church.
--This about this bit for a moment: "he refused to say who it was, or perhaps the person didn't say their name". How many times have you been phoned up by some nameless bureaucrat in the Church, and told that you needed to go interrogate some poor sap? And then you follow through and do it? It just doesn't get any more disquieting that this.

So, yeah: welcome to Creep City. And as I recall, Midgley was asked to do the SCMC's bidding as well at some point. I'm reminded of the scene early in Apocalypse Now where Willard is told that he's going to need to "terminate the Colonel with extreme prejudice." Willard, with a cigarette dangling from his lip, stares back at them, astonished, and nods his head in agreement.

And now we have a TBM friend of Peterson's, who defines people who post here as "Anti-Mormon bigots," who would like access to the moderator level of our forum, "just for 90 days!" He is currently asserting IP logs do not exist. Coincidentally, moderators here apparently have access to the IP addresses of posters.

I really hope Shades decides against allowing Creep City to infiltrate our forum.

[Shulem]

And now we have a TBM friend of Peterson's, who defines people who post here as "Anti-Mormon bigots," who would like access to the moderator level of our forum, "just for 90 days!" He is currently asserting IP logs do not exist. Coincidentally, moderators here apparently have access to the IP addresses of posters.

I really hope Shades decides against allowing Creep City to infiltrate our forum.

I hesitate and take no pleasure in recalling this little story but I will because it seems fitting at the moment. Back when the old board was breaking down I somehow managed to log on and gain total access of the board and assume ownership. I kid you not. I do believe there were a couple of other posters that accidently slipped in during that fragile time when the board was unsecure and left wide open to being hijacked. Jersey Girl knows the story and can vouch for me.

Anyway, I was able to waltz around freely and I remember seeing IP addresses and anything else I wanted to look at. I contacted Shades and told him to get his ass there so I could leave the controls because I was worried about Smoky getting in and doing God knows what to the board. Anyway, I guarded the controls like a good boy and helped Shades out while Gad came in to give him a hand.

I'm only telling this story because it worries me that someone like Sledge could get in and do some real damage if that is his intent. Other than this, I was never going to tell this little story but feel I should at this time because I suspect this board is a target by hackers and those who want to take it down.

Jersey Girl, I'm telling the truth, right, baby? I'm not making this up. I spent hours guarding the old board from Smoky late at night and was tired and wanted to go to bed. And I think I was drinking. LOL!!