Kwaku on the Offensive Against Radio Free Mormon!

[Philo Sofee]

MG
I grew up in Southern California. Our LDS youth, I can say with a surety, did not act out in a tribal superiority fashion.

Oh please. Just stop already with the charade will ya? How many actual Baptist, Catholic, Jewish, and Presbyterian kids your age were allowed to go with you Mormon youth to the temple to do work for the Lord, i.e., baptisms for the dead? How many other denominations besides your own are even allowed in the temple? And you continue to pretend tribalism is not real in Mormonism. And that you are not reserved as "Saturday's Warriors" for the special work in the end times to do among all your other friends. And that as a youth of age 12 you had a very special power other kids not your religion did not have, the priesthood... Oh that special Godlike power only you Mormon youth have and so it sets you apart from the world. Come on MG, we were raised in this stuff, why you imagine you have to deny it, or pretend it is isn't real is beyond me. Of course, the one thing Mormonism does not teach is truthfulness when it comes to their own views of religion and what they really think of all others. I will give you a hint. The only reason you are here is to hopefully catch a person who will become interested in becoming a Mormon, i.e., this is your pet project, and we are your projects. I can't help but see you as exemplar numero UNO in this image building that really does flop, and seriously hard. Just stop already, you are so far behind you can'[t make it up. We already know the gimmick.

[consiglieri]

MG is running a classic game of gas lighting, I think.

[MG 2.0]

Oh please. Just stop already with the charade will ya?

I grew up in Southern California. Our LDS youth, I can say with a surety, did not act out in a tribal superiority fashion. OK. So we did hang out together. But we saw each other every Sunday. Mutual during the week playing chicken using knives in back of the ward building. And during high school, at seminary. It was a natural thing to do. Yes, we made temple trips together into LA and stopped at Jack in the Box for burgers afterwards. I plead guilty to that.

How many actual Baptist, Catholic, Jewish, and Presbyterian kids your age were allowed to go with you Mormon youth to the temple to do work for the Lord, i.e., baptisms for the dead?

Obviously none. But neither we or they (as far as I know) gave it a second thought…or any thought, that I can remember.

How many other denominations besides your own are even allowed in the temple?

Obviously none. Your point? Oh, that we were being purposefully prejudicial towards our own kind. Yeah, right. Philo, the same thing could be said for kids of any religious group or secular organization. They do their own thing. Kind associates with kind. Not that they hate or disparage others necessarily.

And you continue to pretend tribalism is not real in Mormonism.

Sheesh. Group identification is not a secret. Tribalism with the intent to somehow disparage others is not healthy. We identified with a group. We did not go about disparaging others because they were not in our group.

And that you are not reserved as "Saturday's Warriors" for the special work in the end times to do among all your other friends.

Saturday’s Warriors? Maybe. Did that impact or affect the way I associated among my friends who were not Mormon? Not in the least. They were just my friends. Same with teachers, work associates, etc.

And that as a youth of age 12 you had a very special power other kids not your religion did not have, the priesthood... Oh that special Godlike power only you Mormon youth have and so it sets you apart from the world.

I knew I had unique responsibilities. I know I didn’t go around strutting my stuff though. I considered it an honor to hold the priesthood, yes.

Come on MG, we were raised in this stuff, why you imagine you have to deny it, or pretend it is isn't real is beyond me.

I don’t deny that I was raised in the church and that I had friends and associations within the church. Basketball anyone? My guess is that within the city I grew up in that other youth associated with those that attended their own church groups or clubs. Natural. Healthy.

Of course, the one thing Mormonism does not teach is truthfulness when it comes to their own views of religion and what they really think of all others.

I call BS on that statement. Gross over generalization. Joseph Smith taught just the opposite. Repeatedly. And you know it.

I will give you a hint.

And here we go again with the on board psychologist routine again. You’re not the first, Backyard Psychologist.

The only reason you are here is to hopefully catch a person who will become interested in becoming a Mormon, i.e., this is your pet project, and we are your projects.

I am here to discuss Mormonism and to also act as a counterbalance to the one sided views of critics such as yourself.

I can't help but see you as exemplar numero UNO in this image building that really does flop, and seriously hard. Just stop already, you are so far behind you can'[t make it up. We already know the gimmick.

I realize that folks like me don’t do much for your shtick.

As far as I’m concerned, we can still be friends. We apparently had a very different experience growing up. I was in Southern Cal.

I’m assuming you were an Idaho boy. Could be environmental? Could be something just about you? You definitely seem to have experienced prejudicial views towards others. For that, I’m sorry. But there’s not much I can do for you on that count.

We do experience life in different ways and from different perspectives. Sorry you’ve ended up in a place where it’s an ‘us and them’ kind of thing.

Regards,
MG

[Shulem]

I’m assuming you were an Idaho boy. Could be environmental? Could be something just about you? You definitely seem to have experienced prejudicial views towards others. For that, I’m sorry. But there’s not much I can do for you on that count.

From what I hear it's an all you can eat potato buffet in Idaho!

I'm originally from LA, as was my father who died a TBM bless his heart.

[consiglieri]

The problem with MG is he is creating a strawman of what the LDS Church really is and what it really teaches.

And then MG defends the strawman.

Look, I respect the fact that we all have different experiences and different perspectives on things.

But don’t try to convince us that your heterodox view of Mormonism in any way represents it as it really is.

It may be the way you wish it were, but that is a far cry from the reality.

We know too much to be fooled by your misrepresentations

Your argument is not with us. It is with church leaders and the church culture they have promulgated and enforced since its inception.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Brigham Young, in fact, help the Catholic church build its first cathedral in Salt Lake City.

I’m aware he settled a real estate dispute when a Catholic friar who was, I think, being swindled asked him to intervene, which he did. That was with regard to to the property on South Temple, I believe. Would you mind providing a credible source with regard to to him ‘helping the Catholics build their church’ in SLC? I’m interested in reading the account.

- Doc

[Atlanticmike]

Oh please. Just stop already with the charade will ya?

I grew up in Southern California. Our LDS youth, I can say with a surety, did not act out in a tribal superiority fashion. OK. So we did hang out together. But we saw each other every Sunday. Mutual during the week playing chicken using knives in back of the ward building. And during high school, at seminary. It was a natural thing to do. Yes, we made temple trips together into LA and stopped at Jack in the Box for burgers afterwards. I plead guilty to that.

How many actual Baptist, Catholic, Jewish, and Presbyterian kids your age were allowed to go with you Mormon youth to the temple to do work for the Lord, i.e., baptisms for the dead?

Obviously none. But neither we or they (as far as I know) gave it a second thought…or any thought, that I can remember.

How many other denominations besides your own are even allowed in the temple?

Obviously none. Your point? Oh, that we were being purposefully prejudicial towards our own kind. Yeah, right. Philo, the same thing could be said for kids of any religious group or secular organization. They do their own thing. Kind associates with kind. Not that they hate or disparage others necessarily.

And you continue to pretend tribalism is not real in Mormonism.

Sheesh. Group identification is not a secret. Tribalism with the intent to somehow disparage others is not healthy. We identified with a group. We did not go about disparaging others because they were not in our group.

And that you are not reserved as "Saturday's Warriors" for the special work in the end times to do among all your other friends.

Saturday’s Warriors? Maybe. Did that impact or affect the way I associated among my friends who were not Mormon? Not in the least. They were just my friends. Same with teachers, work associates, etc.

And that as a youth of age 12 you had a very special power other kids not your religion did not have, the priesthood... Oh that special Godlike power only you Mormon youth have and so it sets you apart from the world.

I knew I had unique responsibilities. I know I didn’t go around strutting my stuff though. I considered it an honor to hold the priesthood, yes.

Come on MG, we were raised in this stuff, why you imagine you have to deny it, or pretend it is isn't real is beyond me.

I don’t deny that I was raised in the church and that I had friends and associations within the church. Basketball anyone? My guess is that within the city I grew up in that other youth associated with those that attended their own church groups or clubs. Natural. Healthy.

Of course, the one thing Mormonism does not teach is truthfulness when it comes to their own views of religion and what they really think of all others.

I call BS on that statement. Gross over generalization. Joseph Smith taught just the opposite. Repeatedly. And you know it.

I will give you a hint.

And here we go again with the on board psychologist routine again. You’re not the first, Backyard Psychologist.

The only reason you are here is to hopefully catch a person who will become interested in becoming a Mormon, i.e., this is your pet project, and we are your projects.

I am here to discuss Mormonism and to also act as a counterbalance to the one sided views of critics such as yourself.

I can't help but see you as exemplar numero UNO in this image building that really does flop, and seriously hard. Just stop already, you are so far behind you can'[t make it up. We already know the gimmick.

I realize that folks like me don’t do much for your shtick.

As far as I’m concerned, we can still be friends. We apparently had a very different experience growing up. I was in Southern Cal.

I’m assuming you were an Idaho boy. Could be environmental? Could be something just about you? You definitely seem to have experienced prejudicial views towards others. For that, I’m sorry. But there’s not much I can do for you on that count.

We do experience life in different ways and from different perspectives. Sorry you’ve ended up in a place where it’s an ‘us and them’ kind of thing.

Regards,
MG

Lawdy lawdy lawdy, baby Jesus, please help me! As a TBM I can't understand how I'm agreeing with the guy who spends a lot of time in his backyard. For Christ sake Mg2.0. You accuse him of ending up in a place where it's an "us and them" kind of thing? Mormonism is the perfect example of an "us and them" religion. That's why certain people are drawn to it. Look at it this way. As Mormons, we are only interested in one part of heaven, the Celestial Kingdom. If we end up anywhere else besides the Celestial Kingdom, we have fallen short and we are damned to live eternity in a fallen state. Either you accept the gospel and obey the commandments, or you are one of them, everyone else the damned. There's no in between sir. Unless I've missed something, please share with me if I have.

[MG 2.0]

The problem with MG…

Finally. Another “problem with MG” beginning of a post. As though everything after this introduction is going to be a given.

…is he is creating a strawman of what the LDS Church really is and what it really teaches.

Might it not be more accurate to say that I’m speaking from a different perspective/place than you? If we both viewed the church from the same place we wouldn’t be having this conversation, right? So what makes your views more accurate than mine? How can you even KNOW?

And then MG defends the strawman.

First of all I think you’ll need to demonstrate that that was my intent to begin with. It wasn’t.

Look, I respect the fact that we all have different experiences and different perspectives on things.

Do you?

But don’t try to convince us that your heterodox view of Mormonism in any way represents it as it really is.

Apparently I can’t. For you to define reality in this instance is a bit presumptuous, isn’t it? I’m always amused when I hear anyone say that they have determined what reality is. More often than not there are alternate views which also have weight. There are many ways of approaching the same picture from various perspectives with different interpretations.

It may be the way you wish it were, but that is a far cry from the reality.

I can only speak from my experience, and my knowledge of the world, and in the realm of this conversation, my experience and knowledge pertaining to the church. I would hazard a guess that this is fairly common for most of us.

But I would hope that neither of us are lying or misrepresenting the facts at hand. I would not intentionally do that. And I think I have enough self awareness to know if I was doing so. And I would stop. I would hope others are operating in the same fashion. Unfortunately, some people will lie in order to find advantage.

We know too much to be fooled by your misrepresentations.

No you don’t.

Your argument is not with us. It is with church leaders and the church culture they have promulgated and enforced since its inception.

That is YOUR beef and concern. From a place of misunderstanding, in my opinion.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

As Mormons, we are only interested in one part of heaven, the Celestial Kingdom. If we end up anywhere else besides the Celestial Kingdom, we have fallen short and we are damned to live eternity in a fallen state. Either you accept the gospel and obey the commandments, or you are one of them, everyone else the damned. There's no in between sir. Unless I've missed something, please share with me if I have.

Sure, we look at the Celestial Kingdom as a place where we can experience the LDS Nirvana state. Bliss. With God and those we love. Beyond that, we really don’t know a whole lot. So, when we die, and if there’s an afterlife, we will be in a state that conforms with our being. We’ll be happy. So don’t worry and fret so much. And don’t worry and fret about your neighbors on this side of the world or the other. It will all be OK.

Let God be in charge. He loves you, and everyone else. IT WILL BE OK.

Regards,
MG

[consiglieri]

So I’m guessing the Mormonism you grew up with didn’t limit eternal families to the celestial kingdom.

Good grief.