Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience

[Lem]

No," she responded.

He gently continued with his appeal: "You don't understand. I have a thousand or more people gathered to hear me speak. I really must get off here."

The flight attendant persisted in saying no, and Elder Nelson insisted he really must get off the plane. Finally, the flight attendant summoned the pilot for reinforcements.

The gently cracks me up, as though that excuses his disruptive manner. He’s being obnoxiously persistent, during a flight, about being allowed to break the rules, to the point that the flight attendant needed reinforcements.

He’s lucky an air Marshall didn’t provide reinforcement in the form of handcuffs.

[Philo Sofee]

No," she responded.

He gently continued with his appeal: "You don't understand. I have a thousand or more people gathered to hear me speak. I really must get off here."

The flight attendant persisted in saying no, and Elder Nelson insisted he really must get off the plane. Finally, the flight attendant summoned the pilot for reinforcements.

The gently cracks me up, as though that excuses his disruptive manner. He’s being obnoxiously persistent, during a flight, about being allowed to break the rules, to the point that the flight attendant needed reinforcements.

He’s lucky an air Marshall didn’t provide reinforcement in the form of handcuffs.

Oh man! I SO wish that would have happened! Then we would have a story of him breaking out of prison like Paul did. With angels and everything! Or perhaps a miracle story of how using his Melchizedek Priesthood, the handcuffs just slid right off him and down onto the floor with a thud. The Marshall would have put them back on tighter, and Nelson would have caused the cuffs to slide on again, and... and... then! He would have commanded the Marshall in the name of Jesus Lord God of Israel to HALT! And he would have quaked before Nelson who arose in full stature and power of glowing height.... oh the melodrama we could have witnessed through another miracle story!

[Lem]

The gently cracks me up, as though that excuses his disruptive manner. He’s being obnoxiously persistent, during a flight, about being allowed to break the rules, to the point that the flight attendant needed reinforcements.

He’s lucky an air Marshall didn’t provide reinforcement in the form of handcuffs.

Oh man! I SO wish that would have happened! Then we would have a story of him breaking out of prison like Paul did. With angels and everything! Or perhaps a miracle story of how using his Melchizedek Priesthood, the handcuffs just slid right off him and down onto the floor with a thud. The Marshall would have put them back on tighter, and Nelson would have caused the cuffs to slide on again, and... and... then! He would have commanded the Marshall in the name of Jesus Lord God of Israel to HALT! And he would have quaked before Nelson who arose in full stature and power of glowing height.... oh the melodrama we could have witnessed through another miracle story!

great version. You paint a compelling picture!

[Philo Sofee]

Oh man! I SO wish that would have happened! Then we would have a story of him breaking out of prison like Paul did. With angels and everything! Or perhaps a miracle story of how using his Melchizedek Priesthood, the handcuffs just slid right off him and down onto the floor with a thud. The Marshall would have put them back on tighter, and Nelson would have caused the cuffs to slide on again, and... and... then! He would have commanded the Marshall in the name of Jesus Lord God of Israel to HALT! And he would have quaked before Nelson who arose in full stature and power of glowing height.... oh the melodrama we could have witnessed through another miracle story!

great version. You paint a compelling picture!

See? Nelson's miracles got nuthin on me. Wait til I tell of my wrasslin with an old bar (bear) out there in the wilderness while making a video! I tells ya, miracles will come flyin out around the rate of 6 per second! Of course, the experience will be too sacred to actually video... you'll just have to feel the spirit while I tell its truth. Yes, yes, I will have the ability to video it all, of course, but that would mar the spiritual significance, so I shall have to forego doing it that way, but the miracles... they will be true, believe me!

[Gadianton]

I'd found the story Tom referenced about getting off the plane online a while back. I'm not sure if this is another report where we don't know when it really occurred, or if multiple stories are getting conflated. I have to say, though, that it convinced me that his "death spiral" story was premised on a real event, even if I'm unconvinced there was a meaningful "death spiral" involved. I'd wondered if it might be one of his vivid dreams or jealousy that someone else's story should be his. But this story about getting off the plane on a technicality because he had no luggage -- it's so insanely stupid that nobody would make it up as a miracle story. Some of the timing is probably embellished or invented, but yes, I'm sure it basically happened, because nobody would make that up.

[DrW]

But this story about getting off the plane on a technicality because he had no luggage -- it's so insanely stupid that nobody would make it up as a miracle story. Some of the timing is probably embellished or invented, but yes, I'm sure it basically happened, because nobody would make that up.

Dean Robbers,

Looks to me as if Nelson just might surprise you. Please consider:

- Block hour operational costs for the Concorde in 1972 were the equivalent of more than $23,0000 in 2020 dollars.

- The Concord could not go supersonic from Heathrow (LHR) to Manchester (MAN), so block to block time would have been an hour or so each way, considering traffic.

- Then there would have been airport landing fees (about $2,600 in 2020 dollars) for every landing made during the entire saga.

Does anyone really think that British Airways (BOAC before 1974) would spend the equivalent of 46,000 dollars, plus landing fees of say five grand or so, and delay the passengers by who knows how long, to refuel at Gatwick (LGW) and then fly 200 miles to MAN when LGW is only about 6 miles further from Central London than LHR? The taxi, train, and bus services to Central London from either airport were pretty much equivalent in the 1970s.

Being diverted from LHR to LGW because of weather at LHR was not that uncommon in the 1970's. Diversion to MAN would only happen if LHR and LGW were both socked in.

Furthermore, on the North Atlantic great circle route, JFK is about 150 miles closer to MAN than to LHR. LGW is even further from JFK than LHR.
So why would they fly an extra 150 miles to LGW to refuel just to turn around fly back to MAN?

If Gatwick were available, no international LHR-bound flight would land there to refuel, while holding passengers on board, just so they could then fly to Manchester to clear customs.

If it happened at all, It happened pretty much as IHAQ described upthread.

[Moksha]

Sending Elder Nelson on trips and vacations was a sure way to induce miracles.

[IHAQ]

I'd found the story Tom referenced about getting off the plane online a while back. I'm not sure if this is another report where we don't know when it really occurred, or if multiple stories are getting conflated. I have to say, though, that it convinced me that his "death spiral" story was premised on a real event, even if I'm unconvinced there was a meaningful "death spiral" involved. I'd wondered if it might be one of his vivid dreams or jealousy that someone else's story should be his. But this story about getting off the plane on a technicality because he had no luggage -- it's so insanely stupid that nobody would make it up as a miracle story. Some of the timing is probably embellished or invented, but yes, I'm sure it basically happened, because nobody would make that up.

I agree that Nelson took a trip to the UK on Concorde and was diverted to Gatwick along with all the other high rollers on the flight. They didn't let him and his wife off at Gatwick and hold hostage all the other passengers and then fly them to Manchester and back instead of disembarking them at Gatwick. Passengers of that societal ilk simply would not have stood for it. And as has been pointed out, the idea that BA would refuel Concorde so that it could fly to Manchester from London Gatwick, to them fly passengers back to London Heathrow when the fog cleared, rather than disembarking everyone just 30 miles away from Heathrow is laughable. As with everything Nelson says in his anecdotes of this nature, it's a massive embellishment to make him look special. He's being doing this aggrandisement all his Church Service.

The bigger question is what was an Apostle doing spending that amount of tithing on a high society champagne and lobster service to the UK?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

by the way, kudos to IHAQ and many of the thread participants, your thread has now been elevated to the at least one of the 70’s ears by a brave soul:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... ast_night/

And then I piled on the examples of Russ Nelson's lies. I asked if he'd heard the airplane story, and he had. I said "It never happened, it is made up".

You did this. Well done, little by little the lies and deceit are being brought forth to the daylight.

- Doc

[Dr Moore]

It's too bad he said "it never happened, it is made up." I wish he had said "it didn't happen at all like Nelson claims." Big difference between an embellished experience and something that "never happened."